Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Randomhero]

No I'm fine paying what I paid. I got it cheaper than toysrus and it's an awesome figure. It'd one of the coolest things hasbro has put out in my opinion. If you feel like paying $80-$100 for "import pricing" for a little extra paint and elbows and that's how you justify it with "no it's the same price I'm just paying for a rediculous shipping cost for something I can drive to a toy store and buy" that's fine but that's also honestly sad too.

[Counterpunch]

He's not worth takaras price for a small bit of re-engineering and a little extra paint.

For the last freaken time, he might cost you more because of shipping but Takara charges the same as Hasbro for their Transfomer Toys! In reality Hasbro is the one who is more expensively priced because they charge the same giving you less.

Takaras is $220. Hasbros was $130 I paid $140 for mine with the shipping. Sorry But an extra $80+ for elbows and a slightly different deco doesn't justify it in my opinion. I could even buy perfect effects kit that give elbows and still not spend as much as the online prices for Takaras

No, Hasbro's was initially 150$-160$ and Takara's is still available at 152$. When talking about PRICE Takara and Hasbro are charging, you have to compare what Hasbro is charging in its local market compared to Takara in theirs. Not a discounted Hasbro retailer vs an importer's Takara. Get your facts straight and open your eyes. Hasbro itself is charging the same for less.

You are being kind of aggressive on this for not really understanding that $152 dollars in the US is not the same buying power as $152 dollars in Japan. Exchange rates matter.

Your general point about Hasbro over-costing this has some merit though. I think the $110 discount price in the US is probably closer to the real cost plus mark-up. It's hard to tell what's what with larger toys and the factors that play into them though.

[Insurgent]

Well I'm getting him for £95 before shipping. So yeah, I'm happy with that. And honestly, he's going to be spending just as much time in team mode as he is combined mode, so yeah. Those elbows and paint are gonna be useful.


Yes, my combiners spend just as much time displayed uncombined as they do combined. Cos that's how I roll.

[Hellscream9999]

He's not worth takaras price for a small bit of re-engineering and a little extra paint.

For the last freaken time, he might cost you more because of shipping but Takara charges the same as Hasbro for their Transfomer Toys! In reality Hasbro is the one who is more expensively priced because they charge the same giving you less.

Takaras is $220. Hasbros was $130 I paid $140 for mine with the shipping. Sorry But an extra $80+ for elbows and a slightly different deco doesn't justify it in my opinion. I could even buy perfect effects kit that give elbows and still not spend as much as the online prices for Takaras

No, Hasbro's was initially 150$-160$ and Takara's is still available at 152$. When talking about PRICE Takara and Hasbro are charging, you have to compare what Hasbro is charging in its local market compared to Takara in theirs. Not a discounted Hasbro retailer vs an importer's Takara. Get your facts straight and open your eyes. Hasbro itself is charging the same for less.

You are being kind of aggressive on this for not really understanding that $152 dollars in the US is not the same buying power as $152 dollars in Japan. Exchange rates matter.

Your general point about Hasbro over-costing this has some merit though. I think the $110 discount price in the US is probably closer to the real cost plus mark-up. It's hard to tell what's what with larger toys and the factors that play into them though.

Plus, depending on shipping, if it gets upwards of online retail, you may as well just go through bbts, I dunno what shipping would cost everyone, if it would get up to $70, yeah, may as well go through bbts...

[william-james88]

Plus, depending on shipping, if it gets upwards of online retail, you may as well just go through bbts, I dunno what shipping would cost everyone, if it would get up to $70, yeah, may as well go through bbts...

Its still cheaper to import and plus BBTS doesnt give anyone outside the US an advantage over the costs they may avoid. In a forum populated by people from all over the world discussing about a toy that is not released locally, BBTS becomes much less of a rule to measure things by.

[megatronus]

No I'm fine paying what I paid. I got it cheaper than toysrus and it's an awesome figure. It'd one of the coolest things hasbro has put out in my opinion. If you feel like paying $80-$100 for "import pricing" for a little extra paint and elbows and that's how you justify it with "no it's the same price I'm just paying for a rediculous shipping cost for something I can drive to a toy store and buy" that's fine

I got my math wrong. I actually paid $140 for Takara Devastator through Anime-Export. Once shipping's calculated and my order ships, I expect Takara Devy to cost $170 all-in. Maximum.

For me, $30 extra for a superior product in almost every respect isn't that much of a lift (and I understand how fortunate I am to be in that financial situation, and recognize that not everyone has that advantage). If you're factoring in gas money to the equation for driving to the toy store, the difference is even smaller, so I'm not sure why you're writing it off like it's "rediculous" [sic].

but that's also honestly sad too.

And who are you to judge exactly? I paid $45 less than you for Hasbro Devastator. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's all relative. So whatever, I guess.

You are being kind of aggressive on this for not really understanding that $152 dollars in the US is not the same buying power as $152 dollars in Japan. Exchange rates matter.

Issues of purchasing power matter if you're comparing what an American/Canadian citizen can buy vs. what a Japanese citizen can buy, but that's not the discussion (I assumed). It's more what an American can buy here vs. what that same person can buy over in Japan. To us it's the same money.

[Hellscream9999]

Plus, depending on shipping, if it gets upwards of online retail, you may as well just go through bbts, I dunno what shipping would cost everyone, if it would get up to $70, yeah, may as well go through bbts...

Its still cheaper to import and plus BBTS doesnt give anyone outside the US an advantage over the costs they may avoid. In a forum populated by people from all over the world discussing about a toy that is not released locally, BBTS becomes much less of a rule to measure things by.

I know, but outside the US, isn't amiami and the like much less expensive? I was using it as reference for people in the states, as I thought amiami was cheaper everywhere else

[william-james88]

He's not worth takaras price for a small bit of re-engineering and a little extra paint.

For the last freaken time, he might cost you more because of shipping but Takara charges the same as Hasbro for their Transfomer Toys! In reality Hasbro is the one who is more expensively priced because they charge the same giving you less.

Takaras is $220. Hasbros was $130 I paid $140 for mine with the shipping. Sorry But an extra $80+ for elbows and a slightly different deco doesn't justify it in my opinion. I could even buy perfect effects kit that give elbows and still not spend as much as the online prices for Takaras

No, Hasbro's was initially 150$-160$ and Takara's is still available at 152$. When talking about PRICE Takara and Hasbro are charging, you have to compare what Hasbro is charging in its local market compared to Takara in theirs. Not a discounted Hasbro retailer vs an importer's Takara. Get your facts straight and open your eyes. Hasbro itself is charging the same for less.

You are being kind of aggressive on this for not really understanding that $152 dollars in the US is not the same buying power as $152 dollars in Japan. Exchange rates matter.

Your general point about Hasbro over-costing this has some merit though. I think the $110 discount price in the US is probably closer to the real cost plus mark-up. It's hard to tell what's what with larger toys and the factors that play into them though.

Both Takara and Hasbro pay in Yuan for their manufacturing costs though, and I am analyzing this from a perspective outside both te US and Japan (Canada) so all I can compare is the exchange on a world economy scale (where the US Dollar is the dedicated unit to measure prices). My purchase power is diminished but I cant bring it up in an argument since that wouldnt be fair either, so I jut use the US dollar as a common denominator.

And yes, I get very agressive because while I understand people interchanging the words cost with price, what I dislike is when people start confusing the issue and saying that Takara costs more becuase of paints apps and if that is worth it. Statements like that become the basis for a confusion that is still rampant in this very thread and it is not true. The only reason takara products may cost more to people outside japan is only because it is not distributed in their county. And thats it. Not the paint apps, not better sculpting or for more weapons (which nightbird has for instance).

You bring an amazing level to this analysis, Counterpunch, by further digging into the cost portion. Both products are made in the same factory and both are paid in Yuan and of course paint extra paint and removal of mold flash will cost more Yuan. So we know that Takara has a greater manufacturing cost than Hasbro, so why would Hasbro charge an equivalent amount (to me as an outsider of both the US and Japan, if I were to buy an item that is not available locally, like Arcee)? It must be for costs that must be paid by Hasbro in US dollars, such as marketting. So, and counterpunch let me know if I am off about this, it seems that instead of getting better paint apps and more parts, Americans are paying to cover Hasbro's advertising.

In the end all I meant to say with this is that we must be careful in what we use to back up our arguments and how we phrase things when it comes to non local toys and pricing.

[william-james88]

Plus, depending on shipping, if it gets upwards of online retail, you may as well just go through bbts, I dunno what shipping would cost everyone, if it would get up to $70, yeah, may as well go through bbts...

Its still cheaper to import and plus BBTS doesnt give anyone outside the US an advantage over the costs they may avoid. In a forum populated by people from all over the world discussing about a toy that is not released locally, BBTS becomes much less of a rule to measure things by.

I know, but outside the US, isn't amiami and the like much less expensive? I was using it as reference for people in the states, as I thought amiami was cheaper everywhere else

It actually turns out that every Japan online retailer who ships worldwide is cheaper than every online US retailer who ships worldwide for Takara products. Which would go without saying. Amiami is not an exception in any way.

You are being kind of aggressive on this for not really understanding that $152 dollars in the US is not the same buying power as $152 dollars in Japan. Exchange rates matter.

Issues of purchasing power matter if you're comparing what an American/Canadian citizen can buy vs. what a Japanese citizen can buy, but that's not the discussion (I assumed). It's more what an American can buy here vs. what that same person can buy over in Japan. To us it's the same money.

Yes, that is indeed how this conversation started: A westerner commented on prices being different with Takara being more.

[Rated X]

He looks good (except Mixmasters alt mode) But if Takara really wanted to hit a home run they should have shrunk him down to the other combiners size. The whole over-sized thing really kills it for me.

[Evil Eye]

I'd actually be inclined to agree (though for structural reasons rather than adhering to cartoon scale). That said, downsizing is surprisingly difficult- you can't just do a straight downscale like that. Case in point, Mixmaster's arms. They're pretty thin plastic, and if you just did a straight downsize to a Deluxe pricepoint they'd be literally paper thin. The downsize would essentially require the effort and expense of a whole new set of molds.

As it is I'm either going for Hercules or the new Gravity Builder.

[Counterpunch]

You are being kind of aggressive on this for not really understanding that $152 dollars in the US is not the same buying power as $152 dollars in Japan. Exchange rates matter.

Issues of purchasing power matter if you're comparing what an American/Canadian citizen can buy vs. what a Japanese citizen can buy, but that's not the discussion (I assumed). It's more what an American can buy here vs. what that same person can buy over in Japan. To us it's the same money.

Yeah, I think I misread the intent a bit.

Let me clarify and separate issues, because I think we all kind of agree.

The cost of Devastator in the US or Japan for consumers in those countries differs (if our money were the same, typically a Japanese toy costs a little more for a Japanese consumer than a US toy does for a US consumer).

Devastator's REAL cost in japan is not approximately 150k Yen. It's about 180k Yen. AmiAmi and HLJ do their discount thing prior to release and then significantly less on the discount after release.

If we take the base rate of the US Dev at about $150 and the base Japanese price at about $180 (assuming a normal market where 1 dollar equals about 100 yen) then you can see where the improvements are costed in.

Now, right now, it's an importer's market. The dollar buys a lot of yen right now. At $1 = 1.22Y we are getting at 20% exchange discount on top of the pre-order discounts. (This discount will get eaten up by the shipping cost, so it's safe to treat Japanese Dev as costing his listed discount price.

Which means, if you import United Devastator, you are getting much more for your money than going to TRU and buying Dev at $150-170 depending on their mark up.

Only with the recent big sales on Dev at Walmart, Amazon, and TFsource (putting Hasbro Dev at $109 before shipping) can the price discount be considered in the balance again.

TL;DR Without significant discounts on the domestic Hasbro Devastator, everyone is better off and gets more for their money (by importing) a Takara United Devastator.

Also, I would venture to say that Hasbro is taking a much, much higher margin on this figure than Takara, considering their effectively higher cost and lower production costs.

[william-james88]

TL;DR Without significant discounts on the domestic Hasbro Devastator, everyone is better off and gets more for their money (by importing) a Takara United Devastator.

Also, I would venture to say that Hasbro is taking a much, much higher margin on this figure than Takara, considering their effectively higher cost and lower production costs.

Counterpunch, please forget anything I may have written previously, your statements above sum up everything I have been trying to say quite eloquently. yes, we were all saying the same thing, but it's easy to get confused, so thanks for summing it all up this well

[Hellscream9999]

TL;DR Without significant discounts on the domestic Hasbro Devastator, everyone is better off and gets more for their money (by importing) a Takara United Devastator.

Also, I would venture to say that Hasbro is taking a much, much higher margin on this figure than Takara, considering their effectively higher cost and lower production costs.

Oh, without a doubt, you get more for your money by buying the TT version - you also honor the intent of the designers. And hasbro is definitely going for a gross profit by skimping so hard on the devs figure, I don't think that can even be argued

[Robogeek1973]

My two UW Devastators cost me $366 shipped, which works out to $183 apiece. If I were to buy the Devy sitting at my TRU, it would cost me $183.59 for the one set.


I saved $0.59 getting my improved Devy from Japan.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Devy looks very good as expected and the Defensor Groove chest is just too funny

Yeah, I think that is what we call a fail

Maybe they just couldn't get enough of Groove

[Gunmetal]

TL;DR Without significant discounts on the domestic Hasbro Devastator, everyone is better off and gets more for their money (by importing) a Takara United Devastator.

Also, I would venture to say that Hasbro is taking a much, much higher margin on this figure than Takara, considering their effectively higher cost and lower production costs.

Counterpunch, please forget anything I may have written previously, your statements above sum up everything I have been trying to say quite eloquently. yes, we were all saying the same thing, but it's easy to get confused, so thanks for summing it all up this well

You should just copy/paste that that every time! Hell, Randomhero is the second “Random” (after me) that you had this conversation with in, what, a week? The enormity of how often you have this conversation just dawned on me.

In fairness, I think there may be two different conversations here:
1) Whether UW Devy is worth the extra money that Takara makes over Hasbro. (The answer is technically “yes”, since Takara apparently doesn’t make more money off their Devy than Hasbro makes off theirs.)
2) Whether UW Devy is still worth it after considering costs associated with importing and shipping which aren’t Takara’s fault. For this, I can see why the final price may drive folks away.

It may not be on Takara, but international shipping is a lot to pay for a little more purple and elbows you won't use if you want to just leave it in combined mode.

[fenrir72]

All these heehawing on imports.

Having this hobby in the 1st place means you already factored in the availability of disposable funds. Regardless if you are married or not.Family or single. If you let your better half dictate upon your hobby, well that's your mountain you have to overcome.

Don't have disposable funds? Get out of this hobby!

Now on the nitty gritty. Already mentioned that you also have to factor in shipping and your contry's fx rate. If your country's currency has high value, well all is good, if not no problemo as you're still gonna buy this piece of plastic crack.

So the pricing, as mentioned by wj88 is indeed at parity with SRP of the American domestic market. Imports as it is, have to contend with customs, profit margin of the importer, shipping etc.

Also noticed the very very very worn out yarn about the scale. jeez, if you already acquired the smaller 3rd party product then so be it! Do a "Frozened" and leave the rest of us alone. if you want to rant against the size, well, there are some things you can implement if the scale is bigger over a downsized version.

Case in point, Bandai's 1/100 Macross Valkyries. There are somefeatures that require part removal while the Yamato 1/60 does not. A smaller fragile part will get bellyachers up in arms if the minimee parts break. Heck, even the 1/60 MP scale of MP09 breaks when you look at it funny (and that figure had a lot of issues......non die-cast knee and shoulder joints sandwiched with a ratcheted spring mounted mechanism).

Devstar is good enough as it is. You got the TRU version? be happy with it. Us late adapters are still waiting for Christmas or January for ours. The one with individual weapons, extra joints, extra features and maybe extra paint apps with extar shipping and customs duties tacked on him. Ain't the world grand?

[Cyberpath]

http://hobby.dengeki.com/news/129657/

[william-james88]

TL;DR Without significant discounts on the domestic Hasbro Devastator, everyone is better off and gets more for their money (by importing) a Takara United Devastator.

Also, I would venture to say that Hasbro is taking a much, much higher margin on this figure than Takara, considering their effectively higher cost and lower production costs.

Counterpunch, please forget anything I may have written previously, your statements above sum up everything I have been trying to say quite eloquently. yes, we were all saying the same thing, but it's easy to get confused, so thanks for summing it all up this well

You should just copy/paste that that every time! Hell, Randomhero is the second “Random” (after me) that you had this conversation with in, what, a week? The enormity of how often you have this conversation just dawned on me.

In fairness, I think there may be two different conversations here:
1) Whether UW Devy is worth the extra money that Takara makes over Hasbro. (The answer is technically “yes”, since Takara apparently doesn’t make more money off their Devy than Hasbro makes off theirs.)
2) Whether UW Devy is still worth it after considering costs associated with importing and shipping which aren’t Takara’s fault. For this, I can see why the final price may drive folks away.

It may not be on Takara, but international shipping is a lot to pay for a little more purple and elbows you won't use if you want to just leave it in combined mode.

Haha, yeah, and I did give a link earlier on to our fun conversation but it seems the other random guy didnt bother. And you are right on the money with both points. I think its just a matter of being clear. The real question is: Is Takara's Devastator worth the cost to import it?

When people start mentioning "price", things get murky and it's easy to lose ourselves, because while the resulting price one sees might be the same, the assumptions all change. It assumes that Takara is charging more than Hasbro (to a westerner) which isn't true.

Cause if you really want to compare general costs and what is worth it over the other in all fairness, you have to look at both sides, meaning: How much would it cost for someone to get Hasbro's Devastator in Japan? No one ever thinks of that here, but it is a very valid way to measure equivalence. If someone in japan wanted to buy Hasbro's Devy today, their cheapest price would be 203.73$ US. Takara's Devy instead costs westerners about 180$ US (being very conservative here). So while we are discussing what is better, to pay 140$ for Hasbro's (current price at BBTS) or 180$ for Takara's when it comes out, people in Japan are wondering what's a better price: getting hasbro's now for 203.73$ or waiting for Takara Devy for 152$? I know this sounds ridiculous, paying 50$ more for an inferior version, but it is an easy way to look at the parity in full and to see how fair Takara's price truly is.

While Takara may cost me a little more (becasue I dont live in Japan), I preffer supporting their fairer pricing and business practice over Hasbro's. For some reason, even if I am paying more, I feel I am getting a much better and fairer deal.

[fenrir72]

http://hobby.dengeki.com/news/129657/

You're killing me CP.

[Hellscream9999]

Cause if you really want to compare general costs and what is worth it over the other in all fairness, you have to look at both sides, meaning: How much would it cost for someone to get Hasbro's Devastator in Japan? No one ever thinks of that here, but it is a very valid way to measure equivalence. If someone in japan wanted to buy Hasbro's Devy today, their cheapest price would be 203.73$ US. Takara's Devy instead costs westerners about 180$ US (being very conservative here). So while we are discussing what is better, to pay 140$ for Hasbro's (current price at BBTS) or 180$ for Takara's when it comes out, people in Japan are wondering what's a better price: getting hasbro's now for 203.73$ or waiting for Takara Devy for 152$? I know this sounds ridiculous, paying 50$ more for an inferior version, but it is an easy way to look at the parity in full and to see how fair Takara's price truly is.

While Takara may cost me a little more (becasue I dont live in Japan), I preffer supporting their fairer pricing and business practice over Hasbro's. For some reason, even if I am paying more, I feel I am getting a much better and fairer deal.

I think this might be the one time, no one in Japan wanted hasbro's version of a figure

[william-james88]

I know there is as much paint on the hasbro version, but you guys have no idea how much a difference it is that Takara chose to paint the foot made by Mixmaster. It just gives it that extra G1 flare in Combined mode and makes up for the alt mode being different than G1.

Oh and while I have you all here, I wanted to show you why I get fired up a bit about being clear about what causes a difference in how much takara will cost an westerner over a local Hasbro product. This is from an actual article published on the TFSource blog discussing if Takara is better than Hasbro and tell me if you have any credibility for it:

Takara toys cost more, so you would expect them to be ‘better’. Hasbro product is cheaper because it’s priced cheaper.

it’s not so much ‘Takara is better’, but more along the lines of ‘you get what you pay for'

Takara versions are regularly better than Hasbro ones because they tend to have a greater number and detail in paint applications. If that weren’t the case, it’d be rather difficult to justify the comparatively higher price.

Randomhero, it is articles like these that propagate the misinformation, which all refer to a higher price associated to the quality (or supposed quaity) rather than the simple fact that they arent distributed here. And these excerpts are from supposed references who turn out to, as we have learnt today, not know what they are talking about. The only reason TFSource charges more for Takara product than a Hasbro product is because of importing (they cant even buy directly from Takara), no other reason. None of it is linked to an actual difference in the product's quality or appearance.

[fenrir72]

I know there is as much paint on the hasbro version, but you guys have no idea how much a difference it is that Takara chose to paint the foot made by Mixmaster. It just gives it that extra G1 flare in Combined mode and makes up for the alt mode being different than G1.

Oh and while I have you all here, I wanted to show you why I get fired up a bit about being clear about what causes a difference in how much takara will cost an westerner over a local Hasbro product. This is from an actual article published on the TFSource blog discussing if Takara is better than Hasbro and tell me if you have any credibility for it:

Takara toys cost more, so you would expect them to be ‘better’. Hasbro product is cheaper because it’s priced cheaper.

it’s not so much ‘Takara is better’, but more along the lines of ‘you get what you pay for'

Takara versions are regularly better than Hasbro ones because they tend to have a greater number and detail in paint applications. If that weren’t the case, it’d be rather difficult to justify the comparatively higher price.

Randomhero, it is articles like these that propagate the misinformation, which all refer to a higher price associated to the quality (or supposed quaity) rather than the simple fact that they arent distributed here. And these excerpts are from supposed references who turn out to, as we have learnt today, not know what they are talking about. The only reason TFSource charges more for Takara product than a Hasbro product is because of importing (they cant even buy directly from Takara), no other reason. None of it is linked to an actual difference in the product's quality or appearance.

Hah! I remember that controversial article by Maz very well.The so called "collectors cum experts" sources who were interviewed by Maz.

They're just about an expert in the field of astronomy as I am in the field of paleontology. ( I'm in the field of medicine fyi so you'll get my drift )

But being in the field of medicine doesn't blind me to the nuances of economics 101 which I passed despite the strong symptoms of narcolepsy that pervaded the course.

Extra accessory=extra expediture

Shipping=extra expenditure

Foreign exchange fluctuation= extar or less expediture

Customs fees=extra costs

[Hellscream9999]

I know there is as much paint on the hasbro version, but you guys have no idea how much a difference it is that Takara chose to paint the foot made by Mixmaster. It just gives it that extra G1 flare in Combined mode and makes up for the alt mode being different than G1.

Oh and while I have you all here, I wanted to show you why I get fired up a bit about being clear about what causes a difference in how much takara will cost an westerner over a local Hasbro product. This is from an actual article published on the TFSource blog discussing if Takara is better than Hasbro and tell me if you have any credibility for it:

Takara toys cost more, so you would expect them to be ‘better’. Hasbro product is cheaper because it’s priced cheaper.

it’s not so much ‘Takara is better’, but more along the lines of ‘you get what you pay for'

Takara versions are regularly better than Hasbro ones because they tend to have a greater number and detail in paint applications. If that weren’t the case, it’d be rather difficult to justify the comparatively higher price.

Randomhero, it is articles like these that propagate the misinformation, which all refer to a higher price associated to the quality (or supposed quaity) rather than the simple fact that they arent distributed here. And these excerpts are from supposed references who turn out to, as we have learnt today, not know what they are talking about. The only reason TFSource charges more for Takara product than a Hasbro product is because of importing (they cant even buy directly from Takara), no other reason. None of it is linked to an actual difference in the product's quality or appearance.

Hah! I remember that controversial article by Maz very well.The so called "collectors cum experts" sources who were interviewed by Maz.

They're just about an expert in the field of astronomy as I am in the field of paleontology. ( I'm in the field of medicine fyi so you'll get my drift )

But being in the field of medicine doesn't blind me to the nuances of economics 101 which I passed despite the strong symptoms of narcolepsy that pervaded the course.

Extra accessory=extra expediture

Shipping=extra expenditure

Foreign exchange fluctuation= extar or less expediture

Customs fees=extra costs

Though in this instance, all the 'extra' stuff was supposed to be 'standard'; hasbro just chose to rip us off instead