Nemesis Primal wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:Nemesis Primal wrote:My wish is for the movies to be written by someone who really gets Transformers, you know?
Same here. Until I read Regeneration One, I thought Simon Furman could have written the movie, even if he's not a professional screenwriter. But then I read that disaster, and it was clear he has lost his touch.
Maybe we could get someone back from one of the cartoons, one of the
good cartoons. Anyone know what Bob Forward's up to these days? Is Marty Isenberg busy?
Autobot032 wrote:The only person capable of writing a TF movie that meets the whole "gets it" criteria is right here, among us, a fan. And therein lies the problem, a lot of us don't "get" the world. With such a disconnect and so much predictable fan wank, the writer you're looking for will never get within 10 feet of the script.
I'm not saying they need to eat, sleep, and breathe it or anything. I'm not asking for someone who'd know who Terrorsaur or Evac was. Names and numbers can be learned, or glossed over, or made up. What I'd be hoping for is someone who can pick out what's important, what the charm of the whole thing is, the things that would make a story about the Transformers worth telling and worth watching, and deliver that. I don't give a damn if they know Tidal Wave from Heatwave, I just want someone who can deliver a good story about living alien robots that turn into stuff.
I get where you're coming from, I do, but the problem is addressed below:
ZeroWolf wrote:Problem is nemesis, any writer would dismiss a transformers movie for what hasbro want it to be...A toy commercial.
Though in your opinion what is the charm your talking about?
He's right, no matter how much money the franchise makes, it's origins are that of a glorified toy commercial. Clearly, it's worth more than that to us, but we're a small number/cog in the grand scheme and as such, our opinion doesn't hold much weight.
Clearly we have a good bead on the pulse of things for the most part, but there are oft times we're flat out wrong and this might be one of them. As geeks/fans go, we were right about Firefly and Fox was wrong, but we were wrong on Serenity and it tanked, miserably. It only recently made it's money back, and that's sad.
We thought it was going to last forever, that it was destined for greatness, and outside of our own minds and a few others, it just wasn't. The problem is, we give ourselves too much credit. We think Transformers is this deep story with a rich and long standing mythos, when it's really quite the opposite. It wasn't until the last decade or so that people really started trying to flesh it all out, what with the Primes and such.
Prior to that, it was a bunch of alien robots bashing the crap out of each other and shilling toys to kids for approximately 30 minutes each weekday and every Saturday on your local station. The comics did a bit more to flesh them out, Marvel did give it a good shot and it made a lot of fans feel somewhat satisfied. But, much like me, there are fans out there who don't give a toss about the comics and focus only on the video end of the media spectrum. The video end is about as deep as a nearly dried up puddle.
Marvel's proof that comics CAN have depth and be more, and that it can translate well to the screen. They have an uncanny knack for making it work, even the crappier end of the series (The Incredible Hulk with Edward Norton) has some watchability because of the overall storyline. It's compelling, it's well made, it's solid. It's always had more behind the scenes, it's always been about racial and gender inequality to some degree, especially X-Men, so while the artistry is cartoonish and comic bookish, the themes are anything but.
Transformers, on the other hand, has always been "Boss, I got an idea! We take these Japanese toys, license them for use here, rebrand and relabel them and sell them to kids using a commercial for about, oh, 30 minutes." It wasn't until the '00s that people really started to put effort into the stories. Problem is, those stories aren't getting to the masses, whereas Marvel had for quite some time. If you want more depth and more story, then you guys need to find a way to get Hasbro to work with Paramount and the producers to bring more of the mythology to the forefront.
That's the problem: Even Hasbro isn't pushing that agenda all that much. The problem is, Orci, Kurtzman and Rogers turned in a really subpar script that wasn't really good, but against all odds, it worked. It was one of the biggest films of 2007. This is where Bay stepped in and saved the day: His brand of visual magic, coupled with ILM's dedicated and tireless efforts, made the script jump off the screen and wow us. You can say what you want, but Bay's camera work when Optimus transforms for the first time is just jawdropping and still holds up to this day. Problem is, it's visual and auditory entertainment, not cerebral. As proven time and again by the box office take of each movie, it doesn't need to be much more than that.
But you know what? Not every science fiction item needs to be thought provoking or ground breaking, sometimes it just needs to be silly, bombastic fun and that's exactly what Transformers provides. If O,K & R had given us the Primes from the beginning and how the Allspark and the Matrix were created, from the getgo, then we would've had more depth and more options to work with.
Instead, we got Sam's "happy" time. That's not Bay's fault, no matter how you slice it, it all falls back on the writers. It also makes me mad that when they started the Prime series and made digs at the movies with that billboard joke about explosions, it reeks of ungratefulness and as though they're acting like "Nope! We didn't do it! It was all Michael! HE SUCKS! NOT US!" as they run like rats for the door. Prime started out solid and was pretty much ruined by the end. Predacons Rising almost ruined the entire series for me, I more or less ignore it at this point. I pretend it's not canon, because I hated it that bad. Beast Hunters wasn't much better, outside of the opening mini-series that got the season going. That was solid writing, but the rest of it was pure and utter shite. That was a show that O&K produced. Much like their other works, they get the ball rolling and then let it go down the drain.
And people get mad at Kruger for not taking the work seriously, but why? Why should he? It started with a teenager getting a robot car, having happy time and his car pissing all over a secret agent. It was then followed by gang banger Autobots and a dude on a respirator wanting revenge. I mean, we're not talking depth here, we're talking bare minimum thinking entertainment that's actually a lot of fun when handled correctly and Kruger has done just that. DOTM and AoE were both leaps and bounds more solid than the previous two entries. Granted, they run a bit long and in spots they slow down to the point of being a tad boring and overwrought. Fits the series, really. TF07? BORING. For goodness sake, it's 58 minutes into the film before we actually see the Autobots as a whole. You don't even see Bumblebee outside of a few brief glimpses, for most of that first hour. I think he spends a total of 1.5-2 minutes in robot mode on screen during that entire period. And before anyone blames Bay and his thriftiness for that, don't. It was like that in the leaked script, too. The original script included that long, dry spell with no TFs in sight.
ROTF? Relentless battle scenes that go on and on, and no common sense whatsoever, on anyone's part. I'm waiting for a villain to come along who just picks up the gun and pops someone and says "See? That's how you do it." *roll credits*
DOTM came close to that. Sentinel dispatched Ironhide with no hesitation and set the tone for the film. It was those moments in between where Sam's talking with his parents on the bus and fighting with Legs McAss Cheeks over a stuffed rabbit's foot that slows the film down.
AoE was the film I was looking for. It has some down time, but it does work with it a little bit, because this time you genuinely care for Cade, Tessa and Shane. Are they always solid gold? No, but I care a lot more for them, and identify with them more so than a kid getting his first car, with a ditzy mom and a dickhead of a dad. Cade's story is more American, the America we live in now, joblessness, homes being taken, terrible economy, the world's recovering from war...you get the idea.
Prior to the Autobots coming to Earth, Sam's biggest concern was poppin' a pill in his dog's mouth and seein' if he could tap dat ass known as Mikaela. Big friggin' whoop. AoE finally gave the films some weight. People pick on Kruger because he's actually trying and they're so used to writers who don't.
NOTE: Realize that I am not a perfect Christian, nor do I profess to be. I apologize if anyone's ever offended by me, I'm not perfect. Don't hold my posts and opinions against other Christians.
Orci/Kurtzman are worthless. 
