Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[Sabrblade]

Interesting. Siege Optimus seems to be about the same height as his Classics self, maybe a millimeter or two taller at most. That's a little bit disappointing, as Classics Optimus Prime was an undersized Voyager back in its day. I'm glad Hasbro wised up on using better gray plastics for Megatron this time. That comparison with the Titans Return Megatron just shows how sickly pale it was. Siege gets it right on the nose, despite it not having a shiny top coat of silver paint.

But Classics Optimus was the first ever voyager class toy. So how could it be an undersized voyager back in its day?

The Voyager class began in the Cybertron line, right before Classics.

[william-james88]

Interesting. Siege Optimus seems to be about the same height as his Classics self, maybe a millimeter or two taller at most. That's a little bit disappointing, as Classics Optimus Prime was an undersized Voyager back in its day. I'm glad Hasbro wised up on using better gray plastics for Megatron this time. That comparison with the Titans Return Megatron just shows how sickly pale it was. Siege gets it right on the nose, despite it not having a shiny top coat of silver paint.

But Classics Optimus was the first ever voyager class toy. So how could it be an undersized voyager back in its day?

The Voyager class began in the Cybertron line, right before Classics.

Ah dammit, of course it did. How could i forget, it has the greatest voyager figure of all time.

[Sabrblade]

Interesting. Siege Optimus seems to be about the same height as his Classics self, maybe a millimeter or two taller at most. That's a little bit disappointing, as Classics Optimus Prime was an undersized Voyager back in its day. I'm glad Hasbro wised up on using better gray plastics for Megatron this time. That comparison with the Titans Return Megatron just shows how sickly pale it was. Siege gets it right on the nose, despite it not having a shiny top coat of silver paint.

But Classics Optimus was the first ever voyager class toy. So how could it be an undersized voyager back in its day?

The Voyager class began in the Cybertron line, right before Classics.

Ah dammit, of course it did. How could i forget.

And they were bulkier and more massive in that line than Classics OP ever was.

[Dr. Caelus]

E.g. I was happy to see such A Negative backlash to TiTans Starfire being cast as Anna Diop (who is A Lovely black woman) BUT,,, She's not built for an Iconic Character like Teen Titans Starfire! Who's an Upper Eschelon "comic babe". Alittle tiny, cute & petite black chic is far from A 6ft. Miami Beach; Banging Red head broad w/ A Really bad orange tan. Which she's been for almost 50yrs. Thus I was happy My YouTube video "Teen Titans trailer Trash" (see: "5 Fold Understanding" YouTube) Went over really well w/ people....

While color and build are important considerations for human characters because they influence a character's past experience, they're irrelevant to a character from outside Earth's social/cultural context.

Starfire is a chipper, polyamorous extraterrestrial powerhouse. Her sexual attitudes, behaviors, and relationships are part of her character; her color and shape are part of her (often insultingly lowbrow) marketing, not her character.

Also, "babe", "chic", and "broad"? Is patriarchal-bro considered a dialect now?

[DeathReviews]

I know without G1 Megatron, we wouldn't have the much BETTER Megatrons that we have today. But I can't help wondering if Hasbro looks at the original toy, shakes their heads and wonders, 'What the heck were we THINKING?'

And not because he turned into a pistol. But because the robot mode was so embarrassingly bad. Those floppy extend-o-hips, the stubby arms, that horrible coffee table crotch, and the pull trigger in his groin which was the source of so much juvenile locker-room joking...

[ScottyP]

Interesting. Siege Optimus seems to be about the same height as his Classics self, maybe a millimeter or two taller at most. That's a little bit disappointing, as Classics Optimus Prime was an undersized Voyager back in its day. I'm glad Hasbro wised up on using better gray plastics for Megatron this time. That comparison with the Titans Return Megatron just shows how sickly pale it was. Siege gets it right on the nose, despite it not having a shiny top coat of silver paint.

But Classics Optimus was the first ever voyager class toy. So how could it be an undersized voyager back in its day?

The Voyager class began in the Cybertron line, right before Classics.

Ah dammit, of course it did. How could i forget, it has the greatest voyager figure of all time.

I mean Vector Prime being a Time Voyager is where the class name came from

[Dr. Caelus]

I know without G1 Megatron, we wouldn't have the much BETTER Megatrons that we have today. But I can't help wondering if Hasbro looks at the original toy, shakes their heads and wonders, 'What the heck were we THINKING?'

And not because he turned into a pistol. But because the robot mode was so embarrassingly bad. Those floppy extend-o-hips, the stubby arms, that horrible coffee table crotch, and the pull trigger in his groin which was the source of so much juvenile locker-room joking...

Looking at these figures has reminded me of a question I've pondered off and on for years - if you got even one of these figures, traveled back to 1985, and handed it to a HasTak designer, would they even know where to start with reproducing the design elements? How many elements of modern toy engineering stem from manufacturing abilities they didn't have in the 80s?

[Seibertron]

Toys 'R Us was the only chain to actually carry Titan Class in its physical stores. With that having gone belly up, there are no real alternatives outside of online. That may change in the following year, depending on how the successor will do, and how the reissues sell at Walmart I'm guessing

This is 100% incorrect. Titans Return was carried at Target and Walmart as well as other big box stores. Toys R Us didn't have anything unique about Titans Return or any other recent mainline Transformers series.

Titan Class, not Titans return.

Doh! You are correct. Sorry JelZe GoldRabbit!

[Skritz]

I'm quite pleased with how well they scale with their Titans Return selves, to be honest. I'll most likely keep these guys as their 'upgraded' selves from the late G1 era with the Siege figures as their early pre-Earth G1. Think of it as my headcanon take on the likes of their Actionmaster or Star Convoy/Super Megatron selves, if you will.

That said seeing this Megatron make me realize just how hideous the coloring on TR Megatron is by comparison.

[Seibertron]

I know without G1 Megatron, we wouldn't have the much BETTER Megatrons that we have today. But I can't help wondering if Hasbro looks at the original toy, shakes their heads and wonders, 'What the heck were we THINKING?'

And not because he turned into a pistol. But because the robot mode was so embarrassingly bad. Those floppy extend-o-hips, the stubby arms, that horrible coffee table crotch, and the pull trigger in his groin which was the source of so much juvenile locker-room joking...

First, I love that I forgot to extend G1 Megatron's arms for those pics. Ooops!

Second, I disagree about G1 Megatron or other similar robots being embarrassingly bad. I love the G1 Megatron. I love the look of a lot of Transformers who have elements of their alt mode used in clever ways in their robot modes. To me, that was always part of the charm. Having everything "hide" away to form a sleek robot mode that is evocative of their respective cartoon models is how we end up with a WFC Siege Voyager Class Optimus Prime that has to have a front bumper and grill section that isn't integrated into his robot mode or various Starscreams where the front of the jet no longer forms the middle of his front torso which is now faked unfortunately. "Form dictates function" shouldn't be a bad thing with Transformers. A little more emphasis on that could continue providing unique robot modes for future Transformers. Not everyone needs to have a standard humanoid robot form.

[Wireless_Phantom]

E.g. I was happy to see such A Negative backlash to TiTans Starfire being cast as Anna Diop (who is A Lovely black woman) BUT,,, She's not built for an Iconic Character like Teen Titans Starfire! Who's an Upper Eschelon "comic babe". Alittle tiny, cute & petite black chic is far from A 6ft. Miami Beach; Banging Red head broad w/ A Really bad orange tan. Which she's been for almost 50yrs. Thus I was happy My YouTube video "Teen Titans trailer Trash" (see: "5 Fold Understanding" YouTube) Went over really well w/ people....

While color and build are important considerations for human characters because they influence a character's past experience, they're irrelevant to a character from outside Earth's social/cultural context.

Starfire is a chipper, polyamorous extraterrestrial powerhouse. Her sexual attitudes, behaviors, and relationships are part of her character; her color and shape are part of her (often insultingly lowbrow) marketing, not her character.

Also, "babe", "chic", and "broad"? Is patriarchal-bro considered a dialect now?

Alright I'm going to chime in again on this. Firstly I don't completely agree with you. I think that Starfire should have been cast as someone who does more closely resemble her usual design, at least in terms of skin tone. Before somebody calls me racist it probably would still be an African American woman that would match the best in terms of that (many of the cosplays of her out there are proof enough of that. That's also not to mention that her powers are nothing like those of the original character either from what we have seen. I do think she could use a less sexualised costume compared to the comics version in general but just because the old ones look stupid. Also I agree with you on the way he talks being stupid but I think I'd call it fifties asshole as opposed to what you called it.

There, now lets stop this conversation all together and get back on topic.

[Skritz]

Uh I'm just really confused about whatever Fireback is writing. Aaaanyway...

I know without G1 Megatron, we wouldn't have the much BETTER Megatrons that we have today. But I can't help wondering if Hasbro looks at the original toy, shakes their heads and wonders, 'What the heck were we THINKING?'

And not because he turned into a pistol. But because the robot mode was so embarrassingly bad. Those floppy extend-o-hips, the stubby arms, that horrible coffee table crotch, and the pull trigger in his groin which was the source of so much juvenile locker-room joking...

First, I love that I forgot to extend G1 Megatron's arms for those pics. Ooops!

Second, I disagree about G1 Megatron or other similar robots being embarrassingly bad. I love the G1 Megatron. I love the look of a lot of Transformers who have elements of their alt mode used in clever ways in their robot modes. To me, that was always part of the charm. Having everything "hide" away to form a sleek robot mode that is evocative of their respective cartoon models is how we end up with a WFC Siege Voyager Class Optimus Prime that has to have a front bumper and grill section that isn't integrated into his robot mode or various Starscreams where the front of the jet no longer forms the middle of his front torso which is now faked unfortunately. "Form dictates function" shouldn't be a bad thing with Transformers. A little more emphasis on that could continue providing unique robot modes for future Transformers. Not everyone needs to have a standard humanoid robot form.

It's funny you say that because this same design standard is what, years ago, had people whining about overly large and intrusive 'kibble'.

[Dr. Caelus]

It's funny you say that because this same design standard is what, years ago, had people whining about overly large and intrusive 'kibble'.

It's not quite the ssame IMO - G1 Starscream and G1 Soundwave's chests are good example of altmode integration. Classics Prime's arm shields and Classic Megatron's butterfly wings are kibble.

[william-james88]

It's funny you say that because this same design standard is what, years ago, had people whining about overly large and intrusive 'kibble'.

It's not quite the ssame IMO - G1 Starscream and G1 Soundwave's chests are good example of altmode integration. Classics Prime's arm shields and Classic Megatron's butterfly wings are kibble.

Agreed, well said and explained. Also regarding G1 Megatron, Hasbro had nothing to do with its design.

[ScottyP]

It's funny you say that because this same design standard is what, years ago, had people whining about overly large and intrusive 'kibble'.

Kibble is the spice of life when it comes to Transformers. Too much can be a bad thing, but without enough you just have...

a standard humanoid robot form.

And I'm not here for that. A sleek robot with a piece of a car sticking off is part of the charm. Without it, it doesn't look like they're trying to be "robots in disguise"!

[Dr. Caelus]

It's funny you say that because this same design standard is what, years ago, had people whining about overly large and intrusive 'kibble'.

Kibble is the spice of life when it comes to Transformers. Too much can be a bad thing, but without enough you just have...

a standard humanoid robot form.

And I'm not here for that. A sleek robot with a piece of a car sticking off is part of the charm. Without it, it doesn't look like they're trying to be "robots in disguise"!

One of my regrets for the movies is that they didn't make TFs more like those bugs or fish that disguise themselves as plants with varying degrees of success.

[Cyberpath]

I won't have either figure till next year, but looking at the comparison pictures I can already tell that these are the best looking representations of Prime & Megaton in CHUG so far.

Will hold off on the videos, I want to save something for when the toys arrive.

Hopefully there will be some poses left for me to shoot until then.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Count me among those disappointed about how small Siege Optimus is... I guess we're going to need another revisit after all because making him the same size as Classics Shrimpimus means they still got him wrong. It makes me feel less bad about having got Combiner Wars Optimus (who I notice is absent from those comparison pics.)

It's funny you say that because this same design standard is what, years ago, had people whining about overly large and intrusive 'kibble'.

It's not quite the ssame IMO - G1 Starscream and G1 Soundwave's chests are good example of altmode integration. Classics Prime's arm shields and Classic Megatron's butterfly wings are kibble.

Agreed, well said and explained. Also regarding G1 Megatron, Hasbro had nothing to do with its design.

Quite. You can't say "what was Hasbro thinking" about any of the Diaclone and MicroChange designs because Hasbro did not in fact create them! You can ask why they adopted him, that much is fair. My answer is "He had a good villainous look, his gun mode was cool, and he came with enough cool bling to sell at the same price point as Optimus as his bad-guy equivalent."
I'm fond of it, but I will freely admit the original Megatron toy is s bit on the janky side. His die-cast slab thighs can lead to him suddenly collapsing if the tabs get too loose, the "coffee table crotch" is awkward (Although it does have the function of helping support his big cannon), he has awkward side-mount fist holes... On the other hand, Browning and especially the 357 Magnum Robo (Kiloton's basis) were even jankier. And lacked the cool bling the U.N.C.LE. version of the Walther P38 Gun Robo had.

It's funny you say that because this same design standard is what, years ago, had people whining about overly large and intrusive 'kibble'.

Kibble is the spice of life when it comes to Transformers. Too much can be a bad thing, but without enough you just have...

a standard humanoid robot form.

And I'm not here for that. A sleek robot with a piece of a car sticking off is part of the charm. Without it, it doesn't look like they're trying to be "robots in disguise"!

Very much agreed. Some measure of kibble is good and proper. The aggressive minimization of it is why the some of the Age of Extinction designs, ESPECIALLY Optimus', really grate on me. Optimus' AoE "knight" design is garbage because so little about it suggests he turns into a truck. The next movie chronologically had better either give him back his old design or give him a new one that's actually a Transformer design. Possibly without even saying why - just sweep the thing into the trash without a word.
And AoE Galvatron's even worse because he's a complete worthless dirty cheater whose design should have been sent back to the concept designer with a pink slip attached. I'm sure the toy designers would love to get a hold of whoever's responsible.

Moving on from that sore spot, does anyone have a good estimate of how long Gasket and Grommet (the two vehicles that make up Cog) are? I need to know for a planned add-on for my Fort Max (a midway extension for his central ramp and garage that includes the elevator).

[ZeroWolf]

Why would they need to revisit op if he scales with everything in the line? Surely it would make more sense for hastak to redo everything else since they know people will happily buy them again.

[AcademyofDrX]

I know everyone has their own interests, and I don't want to be critical of others' standards, but I literally do not understand the obsession with sizes. I understand wanting characters to scale well with each other, and for size classes to be relatively standard, but whenever I read that a figure is too big or too small, I just can't figure out how.

Maybe it's just that everyone has their own specific tastes and it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Too small = too small to scale well with others. CHUG figures ideally scale well with not only each other, but other more modern figures from various lines (RiD, Unicron Trilogy, movieverse, etc). Siege and Classics Optimus may scrape by as passable size-wise within their own immediate lines, but beyond that they're too small.

[ZeroWolf]

But this Prime is designed to scale with all those in the siege line, basically if you're saying prime is too small, does that mean all the others are as well?

[AcademyofDrX]

CW OP is maybe a fraction of an inch taller than TR OP, and in these images Siege OP is almost exactly the same height as that. They're all Voyagers, so that seems expected. And the Siege figure has much better proportions than those, especially with head size. He might not be the tallest Voyager ever, but I don't see how he's out of scale. If he has to be taller than all of the other Autobots, then I guess the Leader class is called for.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see it. I've seen multiple reviews that say he's coming in on the short side, but he looks right to me in this Seibertron feature and compared to the rest of the Siege figures.

[AcademyofDrX]

Oh man I just figured it out, Hasbro is trying to force everyone to buy Cog to give Optimus shoe lifts.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

But this Prime is designed to scale with all those in the siege line, basically if you're saying prime is too small, does that mean all the others are as well?

No. I haven't seen anything to indicate they're too small except perhaps for Megatron. Rather, I think that as far as scaling with his fellows... this Optimus just barely scraped a C-

CW OP is maybe a fraction of an inch taller than TR OP, and in these images Siege OP is almost exactly the same height as that. They're all Voyagers, so that seems expected. And the Siege figure has much better proportions than those, especially with head size. He might not be the tallest Voyager ever, but I don't see how he's out of scale. If he has to be taller than all of the other Autobots, then I guess the Leader class is called for.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, I just don't see it. I've seen multiple reviews that say he's coming in on the short side, but he looks right to me in this Seibertron feature and compared to the rest of the Siege figures.

No, Leader is too damn big.


You're right that Siege Optimus is the same height as TR Voyager Optimus (not counting the shoulder protrusions). But...


since Siege Optimus also seems to be the same height as Classics Optimus (so TR and Classics OP would be even height)..


Then I don't see how you can possibly say that "CW OP is maybe a fraction of an inch taller than TR OP". Unless you're suddenly including TR OP's shoulder protrusions when you didn't before, or something's screwy with the comparison shots