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Combiner Wars Fan-Built Victorion and the Rust Renegades

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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Yotsuyasan » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:14 pm

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Wow, I stay out of this thread for a little while, and... Well... Some crap has happened, eh? Forgive my coming late to the party, but I felt a need to throw in my two cents on a few points.

shockblast2 wrote:Ummm...they are not "male". They don't have a p*nis. Nor do they have testicles or the power to reproduce sexually.


So, according too you, in order to be male you have to possess functional male reproductive organs, yes? So, how do you define anyone who had some kind of accident which damaged their sexual organs? Or people who happen to be born infertile? Do these people suddenly loose their right to be male? Are they now genderless?

For that matter, what about transgender people? If someone happened to be born male, even if they identify differently, will you still insist that they are male? Like Loretta here:

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Would you deny her the right to be a woman? (Even if she doesn't have a womb...) You're no better than the Judia People's Front! (Or was that the Popular People's Front?)

Or the opposite, if someone was born female, but identifies as male, since they don't have a penis (or, if post-op, are still incapable of producing sperm and are thus lacking "the power to reproduce sexually") do you still insist that they are female?

shockblast2 wrote:They are genderless inorganic robots with personalities.


I don't read the comics, so I cannot comment in regards to some of the responses of others, who have pointed out that in recent comics Transformers are actually organic beings based on silicon rather than carbon. (Like the Horta, I suppose.) But even coming at this strictly from the POV of the G1 cartoon, since when are Transformers genderless?

They have sentience and personalities... Are these personalities not allowed to identify with one gender or the other? You seem to have no problem with the majority of them having "male" personalities. Why is "male" the default? If gender was not an issue, should they not just speak with a non gender-specific synthesized voice? Should they not use gender neutral pronouns?

Why anyone should have a problem with female Transformers is beyond me. Female Transformers have existed in canon since the second season of the television show. It just took a long time before we got any toys of them. Yes, most Transformers are male. There is a very simple reason for this: the cartoons and toys are marketed mainly towards male children, who tend to identify more with male characters. The same reason the majority of G.I. Joe characters are male, although there are a few females. And whenever a female toy is made, you never hear anyone going, "Oh my god, what? Female humans? That's ridiculous!" Conversely, most My Little Pony characters are female since that show is targeted towards girls, but there are some male ponies.

Female Transformers are a thing, and not a bad thing. The only complaint I would have is (Arcee aside, as she has an established design) there is no reason female Transformers should need to have bodies that conform to a human female aesthetic, with a wide bust, thin waist, wide hips, slender legs, and high heals (to make it extra fun trying too get the toy to stand). Such designs tend to lead to kibble-tastic shell-formers. But that is a toy design argument, separate from the issue of if Transformers should have different genders.

Recently we got three female Transformers. Even if a greater percentage then the average over the entirety of the franchise, this is a small number compared to the total number of Transformers released with the same time period. Most fans have welcomed it. Hell, one of those three was created specifically due to fan demand. If you don't like it, ah well. Three less figures for you to buy. You still have plenty of options. And even if, by chance, these new fan-built bots are also all female, then cool! Sucks for you, maybe, but oh well. Guess what? They'll still be a minority, and there will still be plenty of male characters for you to buy.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby gothsaurus » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:08 pm

If they went that direction, I'd prefer 5 different dragons. There are lots to pick from. Wormy ones, Chinese ones, Welsh ones, Hobbity ones, Harry-Potter-trying-to-win-that-cup ones....
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby spongedude93 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:06 pm

Sooo, when does the poll open?
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby SW's SilverHammer » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:09 pm

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The app already updatetd
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Oh Hai Hot spot and Groove
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Limbs, it's the same for all for limb selections
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also the app gave me the name "MC ShRed TRon" don't I feel honored
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:59 pm

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SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh Hai Hot spot and Groove
Image
Quoting with extra emphasis.

Though, both look more like Cybertronian (or Unicron Trilogy-styled) vehicles rather than real world Earth vehicles.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby SW's SilverHammer » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:10 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh Hai Hot spot and Groove
Image
Quoting with extra emphasis.

Though, both look more like Cybertronian (or Unicron Trilogy-styled) vehicles rather than real world Earth vehicles.


Strangely, based off the solutions for possible limbs on the poll, i'm still willing to guess Defensor's Rook is Cybertron's Anderson Cooper. Granted, all of the previews of Defensor, we can't see his other leg, only First Aid, Hot Spot, Blades, and Streetwise or Streetsmart.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:49 pm

SW's SilverHammer wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
shockblast2 wrote:Let me ask you this simple question. What makes a fembot different than a "male" robot?
From a real-world standpoint, if the bio, fiction, and/or creators say it's a girl and refer to it as "she" and "her".

From an in-fiction standpoint, and depending on the continuity, it varies. Different origin stories and all that.


Isn't it implied in, IDW anyway, that the characters from the Caminus Colony, after spending god knows how long abandoned by Cybertron, actually naturally developed gender? Granted it never specified whether that mean they understand and accept the concepts and dimorphism soon follows, or if that means they actually have gender specific functioning parts, then dimorphism soon follows.


As much as I don't want to keep this going, I think I have to agree with shockblast on this one, and to do it, I'm going to have to reference G1 (ha ha!)
In issue #1 pg 1 of the marvel series, we have " whereas life elsewhere in the cosmos usually evolved through carbon-bonding, here it was the interaction of naturally occurring gears, levers and pulleys that miraculously brought forth sentient beings."

The cartoon version is just as asexual, if not moreso, having life given to lifeless bodies by Vector Sigma. Eventually, the comics would modify the origin to state that they were creations of Primus, but never in any sense did they reproduce sexually, and therefore have specific sexual characteristics. The 'girl Autobots' Chromia, Elita-1' Moonracer, etc., were never referenced in terms of reproduction, and Elita-1 was a creation of Alpha Trion, he himself a creation of the Quintessons. I think the takeaway here is not that they're robots, but that they're ALIEN robots, and our preconcieved notions of male and female do not fit.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby spongedude93 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:55 pm

SW's SilverHammer wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh Hai Hot spot and Groove
Image
Quoting with extra emphasis.

Though, both look more like Cybertronian (or Unicron Trilogy-styled) vehicles rather than real world Earth vehicles.


Strangely, based off the solutions for possible limbs on the poll, i'm still willing to guess Defensor's Rook is Cybertron's Anderson Cooper. Granted, all of the previews of Defensor, we can't see his other leg, only First Aid, Hot Spot, Blades, and Streetwise or Streetsmart.


What I think is strange is the fact that Hasbro is putting the Hot Spot torso in the poll before officially showing it off. I have a feeling it will win its leg of the vote because it's shiny and new and people will pick it under the assumption that its good.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby SW's SilverHammer » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:01 pm

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Desslok2201 wrote:The cartoon version is just as asexual, if not moreso, having life given to lifeless bodies by Vector Sigma. Eventually, the comics would modify the origin to state that they were creations of Primus, but never in any sense did they reproduce sexually, and therefore have specific sexual characteristics. The 'girl Autobots' Chromia, Elita-1' Moonracer, etc., were never referenced in terms of reproduction, and Elita-1 was a creation of Alpha Trion, he himself a creation of the Quintessons. I think the takeaway here is not that they're robots, but that they're ALIEN robots, and our preconcieved notions of male and female do not fit.


My rebuttal is
God Wanted Ratchet to be a Woman but hasbro said no.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:08 pm

SW's SilverHammer wrote:
Desslok2201 wrote:The cartoon version is just as asexual, if not moreso, having life given to lifeless bodies by Vector Sigma. Eventually, the comics would modify the origin to state that they were creations of Primus, but never in any sense did they reproduce sexually, and therefore have specific sexual characteristics. The 'girl Autobots' Chromia, Elita-1' Moonracer, etc., were never referenced in terms of reproduction, and Elita-1 was a creation of Alpha Trion, he himself a creation of the Quintessons. I think the takeaway here is not that they're robots, but that they're ALIEN robots, and our preconcieved notions of male and female do not fit.


My rebuttal is
God Wanted Ratchet to be a Woman but hasbro said no.

I'll accept that
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:13 pm

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Desslok2201 wrote:In issue #1 pg 1 of the marvel series, we have " whereas life elsewhere in the cosmos usually evolved through carbon-bonding, here it was the interaction of naturally occurring gears, levers and pulleys that miraculously brought forth sentient beings."
That was retconned away as early as Issue #5 with the introduction of the Creation Matrix as the key instrument of creating Transformer life.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:16 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Desslok2201 wrote:In issue #1 pg 1 of the marvel series, we have " whereas life elsewhere in the cosmos usually evolved through carbon-bonding, here it was the interaction of naturally occurring gears, levers and pulleys that miraculously brought forth sentient beings."
That was retconned away as early as Issue #5 with the introduction of the Creation Matrix as the key instrument of creating Transformer life.

I did say they changed it eventually to being creations of Primus, I was just backing it up as far as I could to start it off, either way, it proves G1's relevance to shockblast, and that's really what it's all about. :lol:
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:20 pm

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Desslok2201 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Desslok2201 wrote:In issue #1 pg 1 of the marvel series, we have " whereas life elsewhere in the cosmos usually evolved through carbon-bonding, here it was the interaction of naturally occurring gears, levers and pulleys that miraculously brought forth sentient beings."
That was retconned away as early as Issue #5 with the introduction of the Creation Matrix as the key instrument of creating Transformer life.

I did say they changed it eventually to being creations of Primus, I was just backing it up as far as I could to start it off, either way, it proves G1's relevance to shockblast, and that's really what it's all about. :lol:
I thought you meant in regards to the cartoon when you mentioned that (since it came immediately after the switch to discussing the show).

Though, the Creation Matrix was originally introduced as a program unaffiliated to Primus or any god at first, so Primus himself was even a retcon upon a retcon. :lol:
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:23 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Desslok2201 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Desslok2201 wrote:In issue #1 pg 1 of the marvel series, we have " whereas life elsewhere in the cosmos usually evolved through carbon-bonding, here it was the interaction of naturally occurring gears, levers and pulleys that miraculously brought forth sentient beings."
That was retconned away as early as Issue #5 with the introduction of the Creation Matrix as the key instrument of creating Transformer life.

I did say they changed it eventually to being creations of Primus, I was just backing it up as far as I could to start it off, either way, it proves G1's relevance to shockblast, and that's really what it's all about. :lol:
I thought you meant in regards to the cartoon when you mentioned that (since it came immediately after the switch to discussing the show).

Though, the Creation Matrix was originally introduced as a program unaffiliated to Primus or any god at first, so Primus himself was even a retcon upon a retcon. :lol:

I was thinking about turning this into something akin to a doctorate level thesis with citations and everything, but I'm just too damn tired, so I went off the cuff and forgot a few things :lol:
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Noideaforaname » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:59 pm

So the crazy build-your-own combiner is just a bunch of repaints, of the most common vehicle types, of molds we'll have seen at least 2-3 times each by then? Yawn...


spongedude93 wrote:What I think is strange is the fact that Hasbro is putting the Hot Spot torso in the poll before officially showing it off. I have a feeling it will win its leg of the vote because it's shiny and new and people will pick it under the assumption that its good.

Yeah, probably. I mean, who's going to vote for the Optimus mold when we already got him, Motormaster, and the implied white repaint? Granted, white Optimus might just be a "look what you can vote for" type of banner advertising the polls. And a jet that can't even hide the robot? Blech.

I think a lot might also vote specifically to try and get Slingshot and Wildrider, despite that completely missing the damn point.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:05 pm

Noideaforaname wrote:So the crazy build-your-own combiner is just a bunch of repaints, of the most common vehicle types, of molds we'll have seen at least 2-3 times each by then? Yawn...


spongedude93 wrote:What I think is strange is the fact that Hasbro is putting the Hot Spot torso in the poll before officially showing it off. I have a feeling it will win its leg of the vote because it's shiny and new and people will pick it under the assumption that its good.

Yeah, probably. I mean, who's going to vote for the Optimus mold when we already got him, Motormaster, and the implied white repaint? Granted, white Optimus might just be a "look what you can vote for" type of banner advertising the polls. And a jet that can't even hide the robot? Blech.

I think a lot might also vote specifically to try and get Slingshot and Wildrider, despite that completely missing the damn point.

Did you really expect them NOT to be repaints? I'd be shocked if there's any attempt to retool them at all
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:07 pm

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Desslok2201 wrote:Did you really expect them NOT to be repaints? I'd be shocked if there's any attempt to retool them at all
Brand new molds altogether seemed to be what was most expected, since this had appeared to evoke the same kind of poll that produced the all new mold Windblade figure.

After all, people were suggesting dinosaur and boat altmodes.
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:10 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Desslok2201 wrote:Did you really expect them NOT to be repaints? I'd be shocked if there's any attempt to retool them at all
Brand new molds altogether seemed to be what was most expected, since this had appeared to evoke the same kind of poll that produced the all new mold Windblade figure.

After all, people were suggesting dinosaur and boat altmodes.

As soon as this promo launched, I assumed they were trying to get more mileage from this year's new molds. I see Windblade as a very, very special case. After all, Hasbro never mentioned dinosaurs, dragons, or anything like that.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Yotsuyasan » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:16 pm

Motto: "No matter where you go, there you are."
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh Hai Hot spot and Groove
Image


Not to get too off topic, but...

So... I know theoretically it makes more sense scale-wise, but does this mean that Groove is going to be a Legends scale triple-changer with a gun mode, rather then a limb for Defensor? Not sure how I feel about that... No, I do know, and the answer is, "Nope, I don't like that." I like my G1-inspired gestalts to all have their proper limbs if possible!

And if the lack of anything about an IDW Defensor on the TF Wiki is any indication (and I am sure comic fans will correct me if this is the case) we don't even have IDW to blame for this one, as we can with Alpha Bravo and whatever the not-Wildrider* guy's name is.

* (Funny, I hate the terminology of "Not-'Character Name Here'" when referring to third party toys, as clearly they are that character... But here, it works! Because whats-his-name definitely isn't Wildrider!)
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:21 pm

Yotsuyasan wrote:
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Oh Hai Hot spot and Groove
Image


Not to get too off topic, but...

So... I know theoretically it makes more sense scale-wise, but does this mean that Groove is going to be a Legends scale triple-changer with a gun mode, rather then a limb for Defensor? Not sure how I feel about that... No, I do know, and the answer is, "Nope, I don't like that." I like my G1-inspired gestalts to all have their proper limbs if possible!

And if the lack of anything about an IDW Defensor on the TF Wiki is any indication (and I am sure comic fans will correct me if this is the case) we don't even have IDW to blame for this one, as we can with Alpha Bravo and whatever the not-Wildrider* guy's name is.

* (Funny, I hate the terminology of "Not-'Character Name Here'" when referring to third party toys, as clearly they are that character... But here, it works! Because whats-his-name definitely isn't Wildrider!)

I'm right there with you... Don't $@&! with an established team! BTW, tiny Groove kind of reminds me of Glide from Sixturbo. Also, a motorcycle hanging off Defensor's chest will inevitably lead to jokes about moobies
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:24 pm

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Yotsuyasan wrote:And if the lack of anything about an IDW Defensor on the TF Wiki is any indication (and I am sure comic fans will correct me if this is the case) we don't even have IDW to blame for this one, as we can with Alpha Bravo and whatever the not-Wildrider* guy's name is.
The lack of IDW info for Defensor on the wiki is because, well, the Protectobots never combined into Defensor before in IDW's comics. Their upcoming fusion into Defensor will be the first time it's ever happened.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Yotsuyasan » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:31 pm

Motto: "No matter where you go, there you are."
Sabrblade wrote:Though, both look more like Cybertronian (or Unicron Trilogy-styled) vehicles rather than real world Earth vehicles.


The fire truck... Well, actually, aside from the more pronounced ladder on the top, it kind of reminds me of the fire truck that Leonard Nemoy's character in Dark of the Moon turned into. So I could believe it as an Earth vehicle.

And for bonus points, replace the ladder with a big double barreled cannon, and it looks as if it might make a passable Onslaught.

Noideaforaname wrote:I think a lot might also vote specifically to try and get Slingshot and Wildrider, despite that completely missing the damn point.


If the reported TRU listings are to be believed, we're getting those, anyway, so that would be a wasted vote.

Sabrblade wrote:The lack of IDW info for Defensor on the wiki is because, well, the Protectobots never combined into Defensor before in IDW's comics. Their upcoming fusion into Defensor will be the first time it's ever happened.


So, even if they have never combined, they at least exist as a team, then? Who is in this team in the comics? Is it the same five members as in G1? Or is there some new sixth member so Groove can be turned into something else? (Presumably a gun?)
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Noideaforaname » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:31 pm

Desslok2201 wrote:Did you really expect them NOT to be repaints?

Er, yeah? At least the torso bot. They sold this poll as new new new, using Windblade (who was, of course, completely made from scratch) as an example, so naturally I assumed the new gestalt was going to be, well, a new mold.

Plus, it's not like the existing CW molds need any help in getting multiple uses.


Yotsuyasan wrote:If the reported TRU listings are to be believed, we're getting those, anyway, so that would be a wasted vote.

I'm fearing many might not know or not believe those and still vote for Slingshot/Wildrider.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:37 pm

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Yotsuyasan wrote:So, even if they have never combined, they at least exist as a team, then? Who is in this team in the comics? Is it the same five members as in G1? Or is there some new sixth member so Groove can be turned into something else? (Presumably a gun?)
Same main five so far. But such was the same for the Aerialbots before Slingshot died and Alpha Bravo and Powerglide volunteered to replace him.
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Re: Hasbro Invites Transformers Fans To Create Massive Transformers Character To Enlist In Combiner Wars

Postby Desslok2201 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:37 pm

Noideaforaname wrote:
Desslok2201 wrote:Did you really expect them NOT to be repaints?

Er, yeah? At least the torso bot. They sold this poll as new new new, using Windblade (who was, of course, completely made from scratch) as an example, so naturally I assumed the new gestalt was going to be, well, a new mold.

Plus, it's not like the existing CW molds need any help in getting multiple uses.

No, they won't need any help at all, but I can't see them making 5 new molds for this. I'm not slamming repaints, I just think they're trying to get some more return on the investment they made.

BTW, that Hot Spot totally reminds me of Cybertron Mudflap
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