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cloudballoon wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I'm like to write an article about its opening numbers in Japan, since fans are curious and it's been brought up a lot. Should I only publish that article if the film performs well in Japan?

For me weekend box office updates are appreciated. But the pessimistic tone is a little heavy though bth.

Sure ROTB performs below expectations, and might be a loser for Paramount at the box office at the end of the day. But digital/physical media will play a bigger ratio for ROTB than any previous movies in recuperating costs because I bet more fans want to stream it than watch at the cinema nowadays. I am one of them. But I'm an outlier from the start as I can count on one hand how may times I go to the theatre in a year (my wife doesn't care about dumb blockbusters, nor I).

But in terms of pure losses, ROTB can't be worst than the DC/Marvels/Indy. It's jsut a weird movie year.

But that full script post... man... that a buzz killer IMO.

And besides, Box office numbers isn't that big a deal anyway. Profitable? Great! Paramount lost money on a film? Tax writeoff! AND (hopefully) lesson learned!

I was having this conversation with my sister the other day, I really think the fall is going to be surprising as these summer flicks do gangbusters on streaming.

"Bay was hesitant at first since he thought merging the two brands would cheapen the Transformers films"

That's comedy gold right there.

Brokebot wrote:"Bay was hesitant at first since he thought merging the two brands would cheapen the Transformers films"

That's comedy gold right there.

This

Try as they might this movie could not get me, a diehard Transformers fan, into a seat. I'm hoping this movie's mediocre performance will lead to Paramount and Hasbro reevaluating this franchise and making a movie that's a little closer to the source material, with less of an emphasis on Bayformers-brand humor and fancy cars.

So the movie opened 4th place in Japan.
I think this is newsworthy. BUT, it's also not good news. So if I write an article, will people still come at me for being a debbie downer? I don't really care for this whole walking on eggshells things when trying to create informative content to keep the community in the loop.

william-james88 wrote:So the movie opened 4th place in Japan.
I think this is newsworthy. BUT, it's also not good news. So if I write an article, will people still come at me for being a debbie downer? I don't really care for this whole walking on eggshells things when trying to create informative content to keep the community in the loop.

Report the headline and news as it is and let the people reach thier own conclusions.

Seibertron as site, doesnt cover all the of Transformers news, even with the submit new feature, which is okay, this is only a fan site after all. It just sometimes feels that whoever is writing has already reached a conclusion on how they feel about the subject and that shows on they approach it.

The recent Brian Robbins interview is a good example of that, where he talks about a lot of what's going on with Paramount and its movies but the headline is framed as a Michael Bay news.

If the writer wants to shara their views, they can make a separate comment.

william-james88 wrote:So the movie opened 4th place in Japan.
I think this is newsworthy. BUT, it's also not good news. So if I write an article, will people still come at me for being a debbie downer? I don't really care for this whole walking on eggshells things when trying to create informative content to keep the community in the loop.

Like I said, I appreciates the news. It's food for thought. Report on facts and numbers and let people decide what they take from it. Maybe put the facts at the top of the article, and personal opinion/analysis after might work better for some people? Still, it's kinda unnecessary to get personal on attacking the reporter.

Those that really don't like the Debbie Downer part? They're welcome to not read anything with ROTB movie in the headline.

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

TulioDude wrote:

william-james88 wrote:So the movie opened 4th place in Japan.
I think this is newsworthy. BUT, it's also not good news. So if I write an article, will people still come at me for being a debbie downer? I don't really care for this whole walking on eggshells things when trying to create informative content to keep the community in the loop.

Report the headline and news as it is and let the people reach thier own conclusions.

Seibertron as site, doesnt cover all the of Transformers news, even with the submit new feature, which is okay, this is only a fan site after all. It just sometimes feels that whoever is writing has already reached a conclusion on how they feel about the subject and that shows on they approach it.

The recent Brian Robbins interview is a good example of that, where he talks about a lot of what's going on with Paramount and its movies but the headline is framed as a Michael Bay news.

If the writer wants to shara their views, they can make a separate comment.

Yes, great example with the Brian Robbins interview. And that was me as well. Sadly, writing "Paramount CEO talks about Movie Performances and future of the brands" gets almost no attention. So while I didnt really give a personal take on it, I did go with that I found to be the most interesting tidbit to start a more stimulating conversation. A lot of fans were wondering how much power Bay had over ROTB and the franchise as a whole and this was finally good evidence of that with a concrete and practical example.

A lot of other media sites focused on that tidbit, they probably found it most interesting too. It's anecdotle as opposed to corporate speak, which we always seem to appreciate more.

william-james88 wrote:will people still come at me for being a debbie downer?

Wouldn't that be a Decepti-downer? A Dead Ender?

Not surprised at where ROTB landed at in Japan, again, extremely bad timing.

ZeroWolf wrote:Not surprised at where ROTB landed at in Japan, again, extremely bad timing.

Is it really 100% "bad timing" or was Paramount soundly beat at the Box office by its rivals with better products though? IIRC Paramount was gun-ho being the first studio to reserve that time block to premiere? Then its rivals came, saw, and was like "Sure... I'm afraid of no ROTB." I think bad strategy played a bigger role than just blame on "bad timing."

I meant ZERO disrepect, but Paramount gave ROTB to a relatively inexperienced director in Caple Jr., nor have any big-star power lead actors. (To be clear, I don't mind Caple Jr. grow in his directorship role, and the leads are fine, they're both charming & competent for the blockbuster action movie)

If I was Paramount, given its already shaky financial situation, I'd go for a repeat of BBM: smaller budget & scope (again, Caple Jr. bit waaaay more than he could chew, adding plots & characters into his first TF movie like there's no tomorrow and just wanted to see too much TF stuffs on screen but ended up dorpping many of these films & CGI, wasting budget), and stay away from head-to-head competition from DC/Marvels.

Don't forget that the producers and writers share some of this. They had a story ready before the director was chosen. I also wouldn't be surprised if Hasbro had a list of characters who were going to appear at the ready so they could get to the real event for them...("Merchandising, Merchandising! Where the real money from the movie is made!" ... I may have watched that film too many times)

cloudballoon wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Not surprised at where ROTB landed at in Japan, again, extremely bad timing.

Is it really 100% "bad timing"

At this point, absolutely. They released it in Japan three weeks after it was released on digital. That may be among the stupidest business decisions in history. That said, the digital numbers are going to be a factor in this.

First-Aid wrote:

cloudballoon wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Not surprised at where ROTB landed at in Japan, again, extremely bad timing.

Is it really 100% "bad timing"

At this point, absolutely. They released it in Japan three weeks after it was released on digital. That may be among the stupidest business decisions in history. That said, the digital numbers are going to be a factor in this.

My comment was meant for the US/Canada "Domestic" numbers. But you're right for Japan. I'm sure Paramount wanted to boost Paramount+ subs with such an early digital release for ROTB and some other reasons or another (perhaps making way for MI:DRp1, also a Paramount pictures), but that resulted in a big midlle finger for other regions that haven't had a theatre run yet.

First-Aid wrote:

cloudballoon wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Not surprised at where ROTB landed at in Japan, again, extremely bad timing.

Is it really 100% "bad timing"

At this point, absolutely. They released it in Japan three weeks after it was released on digital. That may be among the stupidest business decisions in history. That said, the digital numbers are going to be a factor in this.

Does the digital release have Japanese subtitles? If not, then Japan would have still had to wait for the movie's Japanese dub in order to watch it in a language they understand fluently. And said dub is loaded with much more Beast Wars nostalgia than the English version had since it's got a lot of the same voice cast as the original Japanese dub of Beast Wars, and the same director of voice acting and script localization, that being Yoshikazu Iwanami.

First-Aid wrote:

cloudballoon wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Not surprised at where ROTB landed at in Japan, again, extremely bad timing.

Is it really 100% "bad timing"

At this point, absolutely. They released it in Japan three weeks after it was released on digital. That may be among the stupidest business decisions in history. That said, the digital numbers are going to be a factor in this.

Digital numbers only factor in when a film is VOD, as Universal Studios demonstrated in their parent company's earnings call. Having it at no extra cost on Paramount + gets you practically nothing by comparison.

Also, if anyone is curious, yes the timing in Japan specifically was bad as it opened along with Elemental and, more importantly, Shin Jigen.

william-james88 wrote:

First-Aid wrote:

cloudballoon wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Not surprised at where ROTB landed at in Japan, again, extremely bad timing.

Is it really 100% "bad timing"

At this point, absolutely. They released it in Japan three weeks after it was released on digital. That may be among the stupidest business decisions in history. That said, the digital numbers are going to be a factor in this.

Digital numbers only factor in when a film is VOD, as Universal Studios demonstrated in their parent company's earnings call. Having it at no extra cost on Paramount + gets you practically nothing by comparison.

Also, if anyone is curious, yes the timing in Japan specifically was bad as it opened along with Elemental and, more importantly, Shin Jigen.

If it wasn't for the fact I don't want to be bothered to cancel, I'd get a free trial to Paramount+ just to watch ROTB so there would be no money made period.

https://www.slashfilm.com/1352924/micha ... franchise/

I came across this and had a chuckle because well, seeing that Michael Bay is concerned about the quality of the franchise is a really bad comedy given how he basically made the same five films over and over again and ignored any sense of continuity completely. Plus, knowing the history of the series, GI Joe and Transformers have had crossovers since Day One even. Why this is a concern, I don't know. I'll never know.

I really hope they decide to reboot the continuity, especially with the "Transformers One" movie on the horizon. It would be a perfect time to do it.

Tyrannacon wrote:Plus, knowing the history of the series, GI Joe and Transformers have had crossovers since Day One even.

But only two of them have ever been any good (Devil's Due and Tom Scioli).

Tyrannacon wrote:https://www.slashfilm.com/1352924/michael-bay-worried-gi-joe-would-cheapen-transformers-franchise/

I came across this and had a chuckle because well, seeing that Michael Bay is concerned about the quality of the franchise is a really bad comedy given how he basically made the same five films over and over again and ignored any sense of continuity completely. Plus, knowing the history of the series, GI Joe and Transformers have had crossovers since Day One even. Why this is a concern, I don't know. I'll never know.

I really hope they decide to reboot the continuity, especially with the "Transformers One" movie on the horizon. It would be a perfect time to do it.

Technically Marvel and TF have had crossovers since day 1 as well

I wouldn't hold out hope for One being a reboot anymore than Bumblebee was. Better to just take the movies as they come and not sweat stuff like continuity between them. I swear we focus more on that then they do

Sabrblade wrote:

Tyrannacon wrote:Plus, knowing the history of the series, GI Joe and Transformers have had crossovers since Day One even.

But only two of them have ever been any good (Devil's Due and Tom Scioli).

Indeed. This is very true.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Tyrannacon wrote:https://www.slashfilm.com/1352924/michael-bay-worried-gi-joe-would-cheapen-transformers-franchise/

I came across this and had a chuckle because well, seeing that Michael Bay is concerned about the quality of the franchise is a really bad comedy given how he basically made the same five films over and over again and ignored any sense of continuity completely. Plus, knowing the history of the series, GI Joe and Transformers have had crossovers since Day One even. Why this is a concern, I don't know. I'll never know.

I really hope they decide to reboot the continuity, especially with the "Transformers One" movie on the horizon. It would be a perfect time to do it.

Technically Marvel and TF have had crossovers since day 1 as well

I wouldn't hold out hope for One being a reboot anymore than Bumblebee was. Better to just take the movies as they come and not sweat stuff like continuity between them. I swear we focus more on that then they do

Oh, that ship left the port and was lost at sea ages ago for me. I guess it'll only matter if Hasbro exerts some level of creative control or the creatives decide to do that. I've given up hope for it though.

I'm probably very jaded at this point but ROTB felt 'meh' despite the excellent action and sfx. I appreciate that they included Mirage with his cool personality and illusions but he could've done even more. Remember what Marvel did with Mysterio against Spiderman? Incredible illusions there! Mirage could've hoodwinked Scourge's crew and led them into a big trap. The beastformers were kind of stupid, being basically non-disguised and having to hide in remote parts of South America. The 'lead humans' situation seemed to be handled quite clumsily. How is it that Prime's little crew failed to scan Scourge's crew before engaging them at the museum? They could've discovered the enemies' power boost and engaged accordingly, without nearly losing Bumblebum.

snavej wrote:I'm probably very jaded at this point but ROTB felt 'meh' despite the excellent action and sfx. I appreciate that they included Mirage with his cool personality and illusions but he could've done even more. Remember what Marvel did with Mysterio against Spiderman? Incredible illusions there! Mirage could've hoodwinked Scourge's crew and led them into a big trap. The beastformers were kind of stupid, being basically non-disguised and having to hide in remote parts of South America. The 'lead humans' situation seemed to be handled quite clumsily. How is it that Prime's little crew failed to scan Scourge's crew before engaging them at the museum? They could've discovered the enemies' power boost and engaged accordingly, without nearly losing Bumblebum.

Kinda what you get when story is not a primary concern and continuity isn't a term they even understand.

I believe that these headlines are overselling the idea of how much control Michael Bay has over the Transformers
A Link to interview thatlead to this idea
https://variety.com/2023/film/features/ ... 235679142/

Robbins calls it having “a big idea.” And in the case of the latest “Transformers” film, that eureka moment was to have G.I. Joe enter the robots’ cinematic universe, bringing together two of Paramount’s biggest franchises. But that required Robbins to convince Hasbro, the toy company behind both sets of characters, and producers Steven Spielberg and Michael Bay, to let the studio bring the worlds together. And Bay’s approval was tricky, because he was worried that merging the series would cheapen the other “Transformers” movies. “I called him 50 times,” Robbins says. “I would not let him off the hook. And when he finally stopped dodging my calls, we got him to sign off.”

Here is what Wikipedia describes what an movie executive producer does:

In films, executive producers may finance the film, participate in the creative effort, or work on set. Their responsibilities vary from funding or attracting investors into the movie project to legal, scripting, marketing, advisory and supervising capacities.

Executive producers vary in involvement, responsibility and power. Some executive producers have hands-on control over every aspect of production, some supervise the producers of a project, while others are involved in name only.

According to TFWiki, his role is also described as associate producer, so here is what I found about them

ASSOCIATE PRODUCER DESCRIPTION
What is an associate producer?
An associate producer is a below-the-line producer that works under the supervision of another producer. They are often referred to as the ‘AP.’ They assist another producer in putting a film or television episode together. Strong writing and editing skills are necessary.

As an associate producer in film, you’ll may find yourself:

Coordinating meetings with creatives, agents, and producers.
Making short lists for creative positions.
Making short lists for possible talent.
Representing the producer on marketing calls.

An Associate Producer works on the set of a film, television, theater or other production to assist the Producer in completing tasks like writing, editing or basic assisting tasks to keep the production running smoothly. Their duties include pitching story ideas, organizing scripts and collaborating with the Editor to make shot selections.

Sources: https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/what- ... oducer-do/
https://www.wrapbook.com/blog/associate-producer
https://www.indeed.com/hire/job-descrip ... e-producer

We can conclude while Michael Bay still gives his feedback to ideas and other aspects, he is a part of larger team. Paramount and Hasbro show to understand that Transformers are too big, to have just one voice deciding everything.

TulioDude wrote:I believe that these headlines are overselling the idea of how much control Michael Bay has over the Transformers
A Link to interview thatlead to this idea
https://variety.com/2023/film/features/ ... 235679142/

Robbins calls it having “a big idea.” And in the case of the latest “Transformers” film, that eureka moment was to have G.I. Joe enter the robots’ cinematic universe, bringing together two of Paramount’s biggest franchises. But that required Robbins to convince Hasbro, the toy company behind both sets of characters, and producers Steven Spielberg and Michael Bay, to let the studio bring the worlds together. And Bay’s approval was tricky, because he was worried that merging the series would cheapen the other “Transformers” movies. “I called him 50 times,” Robbins says. “I would not let him off the hook. And when he finally stopped dodging my calls, we got him to sign off.”

Here is what Wikipedia describes what an movie executive producer does:

In films, executive producers may finance the film, participate in the creative effort, or work on set. Their responsibilities vary from funding or attracting investors into the movie project to legal, scripting, marketing, advisory and supervising capacities.

Executive producers vary in involvement, responsibility and power. Some executive producers have hands-on control over every aspect of production, some supervise the producers of a project, while others are involved in name only.

According to TFWiki, his role is also described as associate producer, so here is what I found about them

ASSOCIATE PRODUCER DESCRIPTION
What is an associate producer?
An associate producer is a below-the-line producer that works under the supervision of another producer. They are often referred to as the ‘AP.’ They assist another producer in putting a film or television episode together. Strong writing and editing skills are necessary.

As an associate producer in film, you’ll may find yourself:

Coordinating meetings with creatives, agents, and producers.
Making short lists for creative positions.
Making short lists for possible talent.
Representing the producer on marketing calls.

An Associate Producer works on the set of a film, television, theater or other production to assist the Producer in completing tasks like writing, editing or basic assisting tasks to keep the production running smoothly. Their duties include pitching story ideas, organizing scripts and collaborating with the Editor to make shot selections.

Sources: https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/what- ... oducer-do/
https://www.wrapbook.com/blog/associate-producer
https://www.indeed.com/hire/job-descrip ... e-producer

We can conclude while Michael Bay still gives his feedback to ideas and other aspects, he is a part of larger team. Paramount and Hasbro show to understand that Transformers are too big, to have just one voice deciding everything.

OK. I have to say this is impressive work. Well done putting all this stuff together. And I agree 100%.