Shanghai Police Crack Down on Transformers KOs, Raiding Factory and Arresting People

Wondered where all the knockoffs on Amazon went to overnight. Now I know and it's better for that!

Look like the Weijiang toys will become rare hot collectibles pretty soon.

i wonder if those oversized combiner wars figures will be rare now

That's a real shame. WeiJiang took alot of the crappier hasbro designs and fixed them. They would upscale some figures, add articulation where needed, overall good things.

Welp. Hadda happen eventually.

Ultra Markus wrote:i wonder if those oversized combiner wars figures will be rare now

They will if Ebay suddenly forbid their sale and the authorities command the remaining stocks to be destroyed. This is the most likely scenario.

I wonder if it's just Weijiang that is affected, or is it all the KOs? Because I ordered yesterday the undersized MP-10V trailer for a custom and it would suck if I could no longer receive it despite the thing being marked as shipped.

I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

DeathReviews wrote:I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

sol magnus wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

I think it's the usual troll-n-run tactic.
Replying nonsense via the news article without ever entering the thread, and never replying to anything afterward. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't buy many KOs, but I've bought a couple. So I guess I feel bad for the KO people since they really did make some good toys ... out of designs they outright stole.

A part of me is a bit more tempted to get the oversized combiners while I can find them easily. But that's the relentless consumerist in me.

sol magnus wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

Hasbro's got their "Masterpiece" line for high end stuff - except they keep remaking those too. If the normal figures weren't lacking, then 3rd party enhancement companies (and their dark cousins the "KO" outfits) wouldn't have such a huge market. Sure it's better to buy the official merchandise. But it's also better when the official merchandise is made with enough quality that nobody would bother with 3rd party and KO figures....

DeathReviews wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

DeathReviews wrote:I think Hasbro is just jealous because some fly-by-night losers can make the toys bigger and better than THEY can...

By reverse engineering their designs? Are you joking or is this a "blame the victim" thing?

Hasbro's got their "Masterpiece" line for high end stuff - except they keep remaking those too. If the normal figures weren't lacking, then 3rd party enhancement companies (and their dark cousins the "KO" outfits) wouldn't have such a huge market. Sure it's better to buy the official merchandise. But it's also better when the official merchandise is made with enough quality that nobody would bother with 3rd party and KO figures....

The guy above you would disprove part of your thesis. He buys them not because of quality at all - but because they're oversized versions of Hasbro figures. If Hasbro is "jealous", they'd be right to be, since they are literally selling their stuff and not getting a cut of it.

I don't buy knock-offs. I will buy the occasional 3rd party figure to fill in a collection gap, but I always get the official of any character I do this with. We can debate the merits of IP infringement in both cases, but with the knock-offs it's indefensible. With 3rd party figures, Hasbro isn't actually losing any money (in my case).

Not to mention the investment (time, money, etc) Hasbro has put into each figure, something the KO companies don't have to worry about as reverse engineering is a lot easier than engineering from scratch.

But hey, I'm sure people will still find a way to hate on Hasbro for it, I'm sure if they had something they created stolen they might think otherwise.

DeathReviews wrote:If the normal figures weren't lacking, then 3rd party enhancement companies (and their dark cousins the "KO" outfits) wouldn't have such a huge market.

Exactly. I was just looking across their oversized combiners about a week ago.
My Combiner Wars Superion, For example, Looks downright puny next to Combiner Wars Devastator (As do all of the other combiners, Really).
As you can see from my profile picture, I really like the IDW designs and characters. If Hasbro made more figures of them, 3d party stuff (Like MMC, For example) wouldn't need to exist. This ties back into the combiner thing; I'm not the only one dissatisfied with the size difference, Thus, A company made oversized ones. I'll not get into the legality, But it's simple supply vs demand. If theres a void in a market that a company isn't filling, Someone else will always fill that void. Hasbro can play wack-a-mole forever, But it's like Hydra. Cut off one head, Two more shall grow back.
The only way for Hasbro/Takara to if not permanently stop this, But at least slow it down a bit, Would be to try to fill that void, Lest others inevitably will.

Burn wrote:Not to mention the investment (time, money, etc) Hasbro has put into each figure, something the KO companies don't have to worry about as reverse engineering is a lot easier than engineering from scratch.

But hey, I'm sure people will still find a way to hate on Hasbro for it, I'm sure if they had something they created stolen they might think otherwise.

Exactly.

It's pretty damn easy to say "HASBLOW MAED CRAP!" when Hasbro/Takara have to...

-- Develop the toy from scratch.
-- Then having a specific limited budget for each toy.
-- And having to deal with safety measures dictated by the laws of so many countries worldwide.

The KO company don't have to deal with any of those points. It's piss-easy to improves things when you don't have to invent anything and having no limitations.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Like I've said before when we were discussing the Haslab Unicron vs. whatever copy cat 3rd party option is out there, I really don't see this counterfeit producing and embracing culture in other fandoms like MOTU, Star Wars or G.I. Joe. It's completely frowned upon and you'd be ridiculed to no end if you even tried it in the sneaker head culture. Knock off J's? Pffft!!! GTFOH! But in Transformers fandom, it's welcomed. I don't understand how online retailers like BBTS, TF Source and others carry the official products and the blatant rip off 3rd party figures. The 3rd party companies make some good products, why not create their own lines and market them with accompanying media such as cartoons, comics, video games and movies? Oh, I know, it's much cheaper and far more convenient to lat the official license holder make that investment and then capitalize on it.

Regimus Prime wrote:Good riddance to bad rubbish. Like I've said before when we were discussing the Haslab Unicron vs. whatever copy cat 3rd party option is out there, I really don't see this counterfeit producing and embracing culture in other fandoms like MOTU, Star Wars or G.I. Joe. It's completely frowned upon and you'd be ridiculed to no end if you even tried it in the sneaker head culture. Knock off J's? Pffft!!! GTFOH! But in Transformers fandom, it's welcomed. I don't understand how online retailers like BBTS, TF Source and others carry the official products and the blatant rip off 3rd party figures. The 3rd party companies make some good products, why not create their own lines and market them with accompanying media such as cartoons, comics, video games and movies? Oh, I know, it's much cheaper and far more convenient to lat the official license holder make that investment and then capitalize on it.

I'll give you the TlDr:

3P =/= KO

I've only purchased one KO, and it was just recently. I see a lot of people here talking about over sized CW combiners. I think the ones released by TT/Hasbro were very well done for the most pat, it's just that Devastator and Predaking were too big IMHO (they are great toys, and I purchased them, just not to scale with anything else other than other Titans). Better to shrink two combiners, than try to purchase 20+ larger ones. So I just bought Taikongzahns undersized Devastator, and it is actually pretty good.

Not like the $10 combiners original series rips that used to sell at flea markets 10-15 years ago that would literally fall apart when you tried to transform them. I'm still hoping for an undersized Predaking. But we'll see.

I don't expect TT/Hasbro to please all of the fans all of the time, that would be impossible. So since there's always someone that's going to be "I'd rather this toy be "Y", than "X", (bigger, smaller, different colors, different accessories etc...) it's likely some 3P or KO is going to make it, if enough people ask for it.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I'll give you the TlDr:

3P =/= KO

Exactly.

3P, while I don't buy it, only "steals" the character likeness, they do their own design and engineering.

KO just steals everything, does a bit of reverse engineering, slaps together some molds, pours in some questionable plastic, bit of assembly and toss it out there as either a KO, or, and this is what shits me the most, the genuine article.

o.supreme wrote:Better to shrink two combiners, than try to purchase 20+ larger ones. So I just bought Taikongzahns undersized Devastator, and it is actually pretty good.

Huh. Quite short sightedly, I honestly didn't think of that. Thats a pretty good idea, One I think I'll look into.

Not sure if this is mentioned, but "Black Apple" himself was arrested as well in this police raid.

Wonko, by majority it's Devy and Predaking who are outsize - the others aren't too small, those two are too big. I mean, yeah, they're at the mass-shifted colossus size from the cartoon and Omega Supreme is made to match. But it's at the cost of being out of whack with their fellows, the individual Predacons and Constructicons being oversize, and being available only as expensive Titan-class giftsets which there's only room for so many of at a time.
I suppose those upsize combiner components had some purpose, but the other oversize stuff just feels like pointless bloat..


Ahem.
On the one hand, Weijiang did make some improvements to HasTak's official designs.
On the other hand, they stole those designs - they didn't do the real work, they only polished it marginally. From HasTak's perspective it's like someone plagiarizing their homework and then getting extra credit because they fixed some typos. Extra bad when it's presented as legit merch.



That being said... I hope the non-Weijiang bootlegs avoid this bullet for now. Especially the non-oversize Combiner Wars KOs. After all, KOs of discontinued stuff like that aren't competing with HasTak - they're competing with the secondary market. And I have zero problem buying a KO when the legit option is "Buy it secondhand or off a reseller for triple or more the retail price".

Burn wrote: and toss it out there as either a KO, or, and this is what shits me the most, the genuine article.

That has always been the most bothersome aspect to me. I remember a few years ago, I went on an MP buying spree on Ebay (Mostly just buying the ones I missed, As I'd fallen behind somewhat on the releases) And it was nearly impossible to find authentic ones. If you looked close enough on the box, Some were labeled in the corner, Using Takara's familiar brand logo , As "Takasa Tony" (Presumably Takara Tomy's less successful cousin ) And other times they'd just use Takara's stock photos, And call it authentic (Even when it wound up not being.) I remember contacting sellers before buying, Asking nicely if the products were KOs, Whereupon the response would usually be angry and belligerent. One of the nicer ones, I remember, Was something to the effect of "If you have any questions or inquiry's, Don't buy from us"
Yikes.
It's one thing to make KOs that people willingly buy, But entirely another trying to deliberately fool people.
That's not cool.

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:I'll give you the TlDr:

3P =/= KO

Exactly.

3P, while I don't buy it, only "steals" the character likeness, they do their own design and engineering.

KO just steals everything, does a bit of reverse engineering, slaps together some molds, pours in some questionable plastic, bit of assembly and toss it out there as either a KO, or, and this is what shits me the most, the genuine article.

While it's correct to say that the two forms of theft are different, 3P putting a lot more effort into what they do, it is still theft, which I believe is the comparison OP was making. This is exactly why the Core Star Unicron was Cease & Desisted last year, and why Hasbro has every right to go to every 3P provider that creates replicas of HasTak IP and do the same, not just the companies banging out direct knock-offs.

I own a handful of 3P and, yes, the same in knock-offs (some deliberately, a couple not) but I've never deluded myself that I'm doing anything other than supporting outright IP theft, something that no other industry in the world tolerates. So I'm not going to point fingers at KOs while hoping 3P somehow escapes notice. Just imagine if over the last decade all the money that had been funnelled into just 3P product alone had gone to Hasbro instead - what Transformers might now exist that don't because Hasbro budgets didn't quite stretch that far?

Anyone who buys or sells non-official TF product is complicit in stealing HasTak IP and those profiting from it are possibly now in for a very rude awakening. I reckon we recipients might have some adjusting to do as well if, as an example, websites start banning posts of this kind of product.

I own a ko here and there mainly to replace some originals that got destroyed... but yeah the ko market should be dealt with. Fans knowing what they’re getting is one, however, these are put out there to fool people into thinking they’re the real deal at times.

At times I wonder if I’ve been fobbed off with a ko.

Otherwise.. am I the only one to appreciate how ark like that police conference room decor is?

Yeah but Weijang was known for improving a lot of figures. I remember they made this KO of the Studio Series Blackout and gave it poseable fingers. It looked really badass. And I don't think they charged much more, but I was just too lazy to get one especially since I already owned the Studio Series version. Oh well. They were probably among the more respectable KO companies.

I think Wei Jang knew the risks with what they were doing. Will be interesting to see what will happen next with regards to going to court (if it does)

There's a problem with the line of thinking that if Has/tak done x it would stop all the ko makers, all the 3rd party makers. People would still turn elsewhere because of their perspective on toys, maybe their character was the wrong height for them, maybe because of plastic limitations it didn't have the right arsenal. Or maybe because of what the character turns into, they're just not going to get that character anymore. Basically has/tak could do everything right but ko/3rd party would still exist in some form. You can't please everyone all the time. Ko makers and 3rd party makers have an easier job then Has/tak in the sense of having no limits, no budget restraints from management. They'll never have to worry about what would sell on store shelves.

WJ has been the premiere KO company for quite a few years now. I'll miss them, especially since Black Apple won't be in the scene after this.

However, on the discussion of third party vs. KO: please understand the difference between a design or character being taken from this, extremely conservatively, billion dollar corporation and the outright theft of their products. This will most likely fall on deaf ears, but third parties aren't hurting Hasbro's profits. Legally what they do is in the grey area but their presence only enriches our hobby. Whatever moral quandaries you have with them has nothing to do with what is indisputably infringing on Hasbro and Takara property.

Despite this, please don't jump to defending Hasbro whenever KOs are brought up. The KO industry pales in comparison to the sheer size of Hasbro and Takara. Whatever you say on a fan forum regarding KOs won't give you a blessing from HasTak.

Hopefully all parties involved with the investigation brought up by this article remain in good health and additional information regarding it arises soon.

My only wish on the KO crackdown is to see those god damned G1 "reissues" to be put to rest once and for all. I've been burned twice already and it's almost 200$CAN flushed down the toilet.

I heard rumours that the reason they got smacked down was for trying to KO an Iron Man figure, and in doing so invoking the wrath of The Mouse. No idea how true that is of course, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyway, I'm not sad to see the back of a KO company but I hope they don't crack down on 3Ps, because as mentioned before there's a big difference between making barely-altered clones of existing work and making entirely originally engineered and designed figures that look like an existing character.

Black Hat wrote:Anyway, I'm not sad to see the back of a KO company but I hope they don't crack down on 3Ps, because as mentioned before there's a big difference between making barely-altered clones of existing work and making entirely originally engineered and designed figures that look like an existing character.

There's also the fact that often get inspired by 3P for their own work. As if 3P companies were free R&R.

My big wish is that has/tak face competition in the Transforming robot arena like the old tf vs gobot days. A new ip needs to come along to give the franchise a kick up the backside. To be blunt, 3p aren't competing as they don't own the base designs, a simple licence would change them from non-official to official. The competition im talking of is more Sony vs Microsoft in the gaming arena.

Terrsolpix wrote:WJ has been the premiere KO company for quite a few years now. I'll miss them, especially since Black Apple won't be in the scene after this.

However, on the discussion of third party vs. KO: please understand the difference between a design or character being taken from this, extremely conservatively, billion dollar corporation and the outright theft of their products. This will most likely fall on deaf ears, but third parties aren't hurting Hasbro's profits. Legally what they do is in the grey area but their presence only enriches our hobby.

I'd be curious to see how you measure Hasbro's finances weighed against the impact of 3P product, to have come to this opinion. And in terms of enrichment I think the arguments here are mostly circumstantial, lack proof, and I would suggest are also heavily biased due to self-interest.

Just to address the implication that because Hasbro are making Billions then supposedly smaller-scale theft is fine: it isn't.

Whatever moral quandaries you have with them has nothing to do with what is indisputably infringing on Hasbro and Takara property.

Companies are stealing from the company that created our beloved hobby and we're supporting that. Unless we're truly amoral monsters we should ALL have this moral quandary, at least a little.

Despite this, please don't jump to defending Hasbro whenever KOs are brought up. The KO industry pales in comparison to the sheer size of Hasbro and Takara. Whatever you say on a fan forum regarding KOs won't give you a blessing from HasTak."

Who posts on message boards looking for some kind of nebulous blessing from HasTak? That's a weird thing to accuse people of.

ZeroWolf wrote:My big wish is that has/tak face competition in the Transforming robot arena like the old tf vs gobot days. A new ip needs to come along to give the franchise a kick up the backside. To be blunt, 3p aren't competing as they don't own the base designs, a simple licence would change them from non-official to official. The competition im talking of is more Sony vs Microsoft in the gaming arena.

To TRULY compete, one must up their production value and marketing budget tremendously. Especially if the company want to go international.

Sonokong is already doing that with their awesome transforming robot lines, but their market is sadly limited to South Korea. It's really a bummer because importing these toys are REALLY expensive. I got some and I love them. Hardness, size, and durability remisent of the Unicron Trilogy era. Sonokong already licenced and reissued Beast Wars and Cybertron figures. So it's a bit baffling they won't go international.

BTW, I got this HUGE beast of a combiner below and it's fantastic:



Just imagine being able to buy such a thing from Walmart.

--------------

A 3P company could come up with their own original line and then rent their licence to a huge corporation like Bandai. They then will handle the rest.
A bit like what Azone did for the Kikipop dolls. But even then, the market of these ultra expensive (and adorable) dolls is limited to Japan. Going mass market international can't be done overnight it seems.

Maybe Hasbro/Takara can learn something from the Knock offers design process, wouldnt be a first time. Improved toys are always a good thing.

Less options are always a bad thing.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:My big wish is that has/tak face competition in the Transforming robot arena like the old tf vs gobot days. A new ip needs to come along to give the franchise a kick up the backside. To be blunt, 3p aren't competing as they don't own the base designs, a simple licence would change them from non-official to official. The competition im talking of is more Sony vs Microsoft in the gaming arena.

To TRULY compete, one must up their production value and marketing budget tremendously. Especially if the company want to go international.

Sonokong is already doing that with their awesome transforming robot lines, but their market is sadly limited to South Korea. It's really a bummer because importing these toys are REALLY expensive. I got some and I love them. Hardness, size, and durability remisent of the Unicron Trilogy era. Sonokong already licenced and reissued Beast Wars and Cybertron figures. So it's a bit baffling they won't go international.

BTW, I got this HUGE beast of a combiner below and it's fantastic:



Just imagine being able to buy such a thing from Walmart.

--------------

A 3P company could come up with their own original line and then rent their licence to a huge corporation like Bandai. They then will handle the rest.
A bit like what Azone did for the Kikipop dolls. But even then, the market of these ultra expensive (and adorable) dolls is limited to Japan. Going mass market international can't be done overnight it seems.

I need that combiner in my life...especially that red and blue one, love unconventional combiner designs.

ZeroWolf wrote:I need that combiner in my life...especially that red and blue one, love unconventional combiner designs.

It will be expensive as hell, but oh so worth it! The five combined Sonokong HEAVY beasts make CW Devastator look like a cheap dollar store thing made out of tupperwares.

Sounds like Weijiang wasn't giving enough money to the Chinese government.

I blame the victim. CHMS purple Seekers, orange Sunstorm, and downsized CW tank Megatron are just a few of the KOs I’ve bought over the years that Hasbro could have easily produced themselves. Now are we gonna get Earthrise Seekers in more colors? Or does another KO company have to step in to collect my money?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Wonko, by majority it's Devy and Predaking who are outsize - the others aren't too small, those two are too big. I mean, yeah, they're at the mass-shifted colossus size from the cartoon and Omega Supreme is made to match. But it's at the cost of being out of whack with their fellows, the individual Predacons and Constructicons being oversize, and being available only as expensive Titan-class giftsets which there's only room for so many of at a time.

Agreed. I have both. The UW/CW scales great with Titan Omega Supreme, but the smaller KO one scales great with the other combiners. I'm hoping for a scaled down Predaking as I think he would be a great match for the newly released CC Skylynx. The cherry on top would be for a scaled down Omega Supreme at that size as well, but I seriously doubt it. I love the Siege Titan so much, heck, even if in the RED series they released a 12-13" Action Figure of Omega Supreme I'd take that and put it with my combiners and call it a day .

Good Day My Fellow

I can understand the point of those that want to collect counterfeit Transformers. But here some points I guess no one has address in all of this. What about safety and health concerns? With living in a modern time pandemic, health and safety is important now more then ever. So the biggest questions are what are those counterfeit figures made out of sitting on your shelves? Do they contain toxic chemicals? What is in that molded plastic? What is in those diecast metal parts? What is in the paint? Counterfeit companies utilize toxic materials and cut corners to sell a cheaper products at a lower price point. Why would you jeopardize your health and safety to have something like this in your home or heaven forbid around your kids, if you have some. Plus what if you or a family member were harmed by one of these counterfeit figures? Who would you hold accountable? What if one is hurt, sickened or killed due to this toy being unsafe. Some individuals could blame Hasbro or Takara for not keeping a restraint on their intellectual property due to safety concerns. And then there are the lawsuits. There are so many factures regarding health and safety with these counterfeits toys. I read an article just back in November last year, were a major flood of toxic toys are coming from China. I am just looking at the safety and health of all this. As I know when I buy Transformers from Takara which was founded in 1955 and Hasbro founded in 1923. I know I am purchasing from a reputable business and not some counterfeiting company that has only been around a few years. If they are willing to steal, they could give a rats ass about you!

Toys by principle are aimed at kids. So they have to follow strict safety measures. Both on the chemical side and the "no stabby bits" side. KO companies don't give a single fok about that.
At least, most of these KOs are aimed at adult collectors and it's usually printed "15+" on the packaging. It doesn't mean there is no risks though. And especially with cheap-ass KOs that are sold at Ebay, Sirtoys, Ali-Express, or Wish. Those toys have no safety certificates and could easily be bought for children by clueless cheap parents.

Krapicon wrote:I read an article just back in November last year, were a major flood of toxic toys are coming from China.

Seriously though, we all know TT & Hasbro have increased health and safety standards, however you do realize that up until a couple of years ago there products were all manufactured in Hong Kong, and now in Vietnam? Not that much of a difference geographically speaking.

o.supreme wrote:you do realize that up until a couple of years ago there products were all manufactured in Hong Kong, and now in Vietnam? Not that much of a difference geographically speaking.

Well, at least it's not the same country. It make a HUGE difference. The fact that the Transformers are not produced in a dystopian dictatorship that is almost borderline at war with the USA is pretty significant.

Hong Kong is technically part of China, though it is still considered a "sovereign state", as I'm sure you are no doubt aware, that sovereignty is being increasingly challenged by the mainland government.

o.supreme wrote:Hong Kong is technically part of China, though it is still considered a "sovereign state", as I'm sure you are no doubt aware, that sovereignty is being increasingly challenged by the mainland government.

Vietnam is it's own country. It's not part of China.
But knowing China, it wouldn't surprize me if one day, they'd turn full Mongol and move to conquer all of Asia.

Just dont lick KO's or stab siblings with the original G1 infernos arm spikes of impalement. As someone that has bought lead miniatures it's not too hard to treat KO's that same way (ie dont lick them) and when it comes to stabbing siblings with sharp implements, follow China O'Briens rules, everything is a weapon.

This could be pure rumor/misinformation on my part, so please forgive me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember Hasbro saying something about moving manufacturing to India at some point? - Good for avoiding communist governments, but if you are frustrated with QC issues now, expect them to exponentially increase if that happens.

o.supreme wrote:This could be pure rumor/misinformation on my part, so please forgive me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember Hasbro saying something about moving manufacturing to India at some point? - Good for avoiding communist governments, but if you are frustrated with QC issues now, expect them to exponentially increase if that happens.

UGH.
2017 was HORRIBLE with QC. Worst year ever since I started collecting in 2009. That was the year where they moved their production to Vietnam. Nowadays QC is basically nonexistent (at least on my end) because they have ironed out the kinks.

Let's hope we are not going through that again anytime soon.

blackeyedprime wrote:the original G1 infernos arm spikes of impalement.

Yeah, That is definitely what I'm calling them for now on.