Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

News Credits: 12 · by **Razorbeast88** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:39 am

Sentinel_Primal wrote:Have we heard anything concrete about if Legacy is lasting more than one year? Cause I can't remember hearing anything outside of rumors, but if it does, I hope we get some more late G1/JG1, specifically some bigger Pretenders.

I had an idea for how they could work, but if HasTak did it this way, it'd take years to get all of them. Basically, all the "standard" Pretenders (Inner bot, outer shell that doesn't transform), would be voyager releases, based on SS86 Hot Rod's deluxe bot size, but voyager budget, with the budget being used to create a Micromaster sized figure of the Pretender in the armored mode (where appropriate), the deluxe inner bot, and the rest of the budget being used to create Ultra Magnus style armor that would be designed to look like the Pretender shell, and peg onto the inner bot in robot mode to give it the Marvel comics massive human look (and replicate the gimmick, albeit changed significantly).

I could see it being like maybe two Pretenders a year, with the first two used to test the waters being Metalhawk and Bludgeon. Metalhawk due to the character being used in IDW1, and being a main character from the Masterforce anime, and Bludgeon because he's probably the most popular Pretender, plus a lot of kids would probably buy a robo-skeleton samurai. In Metalhawk's case, I could see the armor becoming a booster pack (almost like a prototype V-Star) in vehicle mode, with Bludgeon's turning into more weaponry for his tank mode.

That'd be pretty dope

by **ZeldaTheSwordsman** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:55 am

Time to bring up my idea for the Pretenders again: Making them also be Headmasters, with the head being a downsized version of the robot. That smaller inner robot could go in a PotP-style shell. We would even have had an official example of that (less the head's robot mode being a downscaled replica of the main robot) with LGEX Grand Maximus had he reached enough preorders.
And, with the aid of a soldering iron to remove the Prime Master's pin, you could do a mockup of the idea with TR Metalhawk and PotP Vector Prime/Metalhawk

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:03 pm

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Time to bring up my idea for the Pretenders again: Making them also be Headmasters, with the head being a downsized version of the robot. That smaller inner robot could go in a PotP-style shell. We would even have had an official example of that (less the head's robot mode being a downscaled replica of the main robot) with LGEX Grand Maximus had he reached enough preorders.
And, with the aid of a soldering iron to remove the Prime Master's pin, you could do a mockup of the idea with TR Metalhawk and PotP Vector Prime/Metalhawk

Not necessarily, if the TR Blowpipe Titan Master mold already fits in the PotP Metalhawk Decoy Suit.

News Credits: 2 · by **Hero Alpha** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:43 pm

william-james88 wrote:
Sowndwave76 wrote:Just curious...
Relative to the criticisms of this new Blitzwing, did Siege Astrotrain get hate?
I've wanted a new Astrotrain in my collection ever since the Henkei version.
The Siege greebling of his bot mode kept me from looking at him very closely.
But a few days ago I started looking with more intent to buy, and wow, both of his alt modes are pretty horrendous.
Half of the shuttle is... Severely incomplete, to put it lightly.
And that train mode... Pshhhhh... That's one of the worst alt modes I can remember, especially for being a fairly recent figure.
And again, the greebling of the bot mode... That ruins what would've been the one decent mode.
I'd only pay for that thing if I could get it for under $30.

Imo this new Blitzwing makes Astrotrain look like ASStrotrain.

Yes, he got hate, but it was different. While I personally think Hasbro did go out of their way to make him boxier in shuttle mode to conform to the G1 model and toy, that wasn't the main gripe shared by people. Instead it was how ununiform the shuttle looked with lots of empty space. But there wasn't ridicule to the same point as Blitzwing, that's for sure. Also, the higher leader price went down a bit easier since many cold understand it better and the extra accessories (which we do not know account for how much of the difference in price between voyager and leader) did work with the toy and made much more sense. Plus they added playability due to the locking feature so you had lots of neat display options, which includes elevating his height for those who still wanted a taller toy for the price point. Basically, he filled that leader class slot as well as leader Optimus Prime did and there was no outlandish fake kibble. It does help that both his modes were more obvious in the G1 cartoon in terms of issues so there was no surprise as there is now with Blitzwing.

Now just to reiterate something, while I have seen plenty of people fine with how slavishly G1 that tank mode is on Blitzwing, I have come across no one that was hoping it would look like this. The expectation from everyone, die hard G1 accuracy fan or not, was of a standard tank mode. Some welcome the design, others do not, but no one was clamoring for it.

I guess you may have missed my last post if you say you havent came across anyone who wanted it to look like this, hehe; "First, Blitzwing, I love the way it looks. Although I dont like faux parts and much prefer if they just used the actual cockpit, for example. SS86's Hot Rod is one I actually like the faux hood for the chest. He is a rare example though, as physics as we know them, wont allow it any other way really. I am one of those "weirdo" G1 guys who wants my figures to looks like they jumped out of the TV or comic. Animation flaws and all, for the most part. This goes for Beast Wars figures and the rest as well." But I was wrong in saying the cockpit was a faux part. After watching the review I now see it actually is the cockpit, just upside down. So I retrack that complaint. Also from the video, I think PvP may have Blitzwing mistransformed. The small wings, that some are calling faux wings you see in bot mode, should be facing out to somewhat simulate the kinda double(or just hugely thicc) wings G1 Blitzwing had.

by **ZeldaTheSwordsman** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:30 pm

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Time to bring up my idea for the Pretenders again: Making them also be Headmasters, with the head being a downsized version of the robot. That smaller inner robot could go in a PotP-style shell. We would even have had an official example of that (less the head's robot mode being a downscaled replica of the main robot) with LGEX Grand Maximus had he reached enough preorders.
And, with the aid of a soldering iron to remove the Prime Master's pin, you could do a mockup of the idea with TR Metalhawk and PotP Vector Prime/Metalhawk

Not necessarily, if the TR Blowpipe Titan Master mold already fits in the PotP Metalhawk Decoy Suit.

Yes, but that wouldn't capture the idea quite as fully since that mold isn't based on Metalhawk's robot mode the way the PotP Prime Master is.

News Credits: 48 · by **Nemesis Primal** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:34 pm

Sentinel_Primal wrote:Have we heard anything concrete about if Legacy is lasting more than one year? Cause I can't remember hearing anything outside of rumors, but if it does, I hope we get some more late G1/JG1, specifically some bigger Pretenders.

All we've heard is that Legacy was originally rumored to be a trilogy again with the subtitle of Evolution for part 1, and now the figures are releasing without any mention of a trilogy or a subtitle but with Evolution still included in a number of the figures' listings as if that rumor was true but plans changed.

The initial Legacy rumors also said we'd be getting Leader Straxus, Deluxe Nightbeat, Deluxe Hosehead, and Selects Deluxe Siren, and leakers have been hinting/indicating that those figures are still planned and just got pushed further down the pipeline, so there's that late G1 you ordered.

Sentinel_Primal wrote:I had an idea for how they could work, but if HasTak did it this way, it'd take years to get all of them. Basically, all the "standard" Pretenders (Inner bot, outer shell that doesn't transform), would be voyager releases, based on SS86 Hot Rod's deluxe bot size, but voyager budget, with the budget being used to create a Micromaster sized figure of the Pretender in the armored mode (where appropriate), the deluxe inner bot, and the rest of the budget being used to create Ultra Magnus style armor that would be designed to look like the Pretender shell, and peg onto the inner bot in robot mode to give it the Marvel comics massive human look (and replicate the gimmick, albeit changed significantly).

...this is a cool concept, but I think this would result in more bellyaching from the people that complain about small figures with lots of accessories (like your Hot Rod example, Siege Astrotrain and Shockwave, etc.). Also, just personal opinion, I would prefer to just keep doing the RotF Bludgeon/Legacy Iguanus style of updates for Pretender characters, just bigger. The recognizable and unique parts of the designs of 90% of the Pretender characters are just their shells anyway, updating the inner bots doesn't feel necessary to me.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:42 pm

Nemesis Primal wrote:The recognizable and unique parts of the designs of 90% of the Pretender characters are just their shells anyway, updating the inner bots doesn't feel necessary to me.

Plus, in the Marvel comics they hardly ever came out of those shells or even transformed, outside of the Classics.

News Credits: 1 · by **Rtron** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:55 pm

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
Nemesis Primal wrote:The recognizable and unique parts of the designs of 90% of the Pretender characters are just their shells anyway, updating the inner bots doesn't feel necessary to me.

Plus, in the Marvel comics they hardly ever came out of those shells or even transformed, outside of the Classics.

The thing is, I think many of us just want to see the "nesting doll" gimmick recreated, regardless of how much it was used in fiction.

News Credits: 12 · by **Razorbeast88** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:59 pm

I would just hope that if the Pretender gimmick were to be executed faithfully in the future that the Pretender shells are actually well articulated and not just statues that can move the arms up and down

News Credits: 12 · by **Sentinel_Primal** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:02 pm

Rtron wrote:
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
Nemesis Primal wrote:The recognizable and unique parts of the designs of 90% of the Pretender characters are just their shells anyway, updating the inner bots doesn't feel necessary to me.

Plus, in the Marvel comics they hardly ever came out of those shells or even transformed, outside of the Classics.

The thing is, I think many of us just want to see the "nesting doll" gimmick recreated, regardless of how much it was used in fiction.

This is exactly why I was thinking about the Ultra Magnus style transformation. Personally, I like the Iguanus update and am excited to see the rumored Skullgrin (I think he was the other one), but I also would like a Metalhawk that's not just a massive human that contorts into a jet

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:07 pm

Razorbeast88 wrote:I would just hope that if the Pretender gimmick were to be executed faithfully in the future that the Pretender shells are actually well articulated and not just statues that can move the arms up and down

That has been tried before: MPB King Exkizer for one, that had the core robot ridiculously undersized, almost becoming pointless. The biggest problem is aligning joints between the smaller component and the shell, something SoC Baikanfu somewhat solved by using a semi-T pose.

News Credits: 12 · by **Razorbeast88** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:07 pm

I'd like to see Octopunch revisited as well

News Credits: 12 · by **Razorbeast88** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:11 pm

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:I would just hope that if the Pretender gimmick were to be executed faithfully in the future that the Pretender shells are actually well articulated and not just statues that can move the arms up and down

That has been tried before: MPB King Exkizer for one, that had the core robot ridiculously undersized, almost becoming pointless. The biggest problem is aligning joints between the smaller component and the shell, something SoC Baikanfu somewhat solved by using a semi-T pose.

Had to look that up but I meant more like what they did with Oilmaster in the botcon most wanted set, the inner robots were at the torso only but then the arms legs and head of the shell were barely articulated

I suppose if they were to have a core class inner bot that inserted into the torso area, the Pretender shell would have to be Leader sized to not look like stay puffed marshmallow man proportionally, but with articulation in the limbs and head

News Credits: 1 · by **Rtron** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:12 pm

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:I would just hope that if the Pretender gimmick were to be executed faithfully in the future that the Pretender shells are actually well articulated and not just statues that can move the arms up and down

That has been tried before: MPB King Exkizer for one, that had the core robot ridiculously undersized, almost becoming pointless. The biggest problem is aligning joints between the smaller component and the shell, something SoC Baikanfu somewhat solved by using a semi-T pose.

It could be a Core Class filling up the torso of a Voyager class figure. Or a Micromaster. I think the biggest barrier is pricing and the fact that the shell doesn't transform, and Hasbro doesn't like selling non-transforming stuff under the Transformers branding.

by **ZeldaTheSwordsman** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:54 pm

My idea would be more feasible compared to that for the Transformers line. And work for the Masterforce presentation of the Pretenders, so it'd appeal to Takara.

Articulated versions of the shells, possibly with bitty versions of the robots that fill their chests, would be great fodder for the RED line.

Leaving the subject of Pretenders, one thing's for sure about Legacy Bulkhead. Between being based on the Prime version and the limits of his accessories...

...He'll never live up to this majesty

Not to knock him or anything, it's just that seeing Ani!Bulkhead in a couple eBay lots while searching for "2007 Megatron" (in hopes of finding parts for movie leader Megs) brought that to mind and the presence of a Bulkhead in this line gave me an excuse to bring it up.

News Credits: 48 · by **Nemesis Primal** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:08 pm

Sentinel_Primal wrote:Personally, I like the Iguanus update and am excited to see the rumored Skullgrin (I think he was the other one), but I also would like a Metalhawk that's not just a massive human that contorts into a jet

Metalhawk (and by extension most of the other early Autobot Pretenders) are in that 10% where I would want more deviance from the shell designs for that exact reason. Ideally I would want them to do the inner bot design for Metalhawk and then dudes like Cloudburst would either have their shell design minus the human face, or a design that was a hybrid of the shell design and inner bot design.

Razorbeast88 wrote:I'd like to see Octopunch revisited as well

Octopunch is THE Pretender that I most want. Give me an eldritch diving suit monster that turns into a giant enemy grab HasTak please.

News Credits: 5 · by **Overcracker** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:14 pm

In the subject of Bulkhead I still don't understand why people say he's based off of Prime Bulkhead, when he's clearly a g1-ified version of Animated Bulkhead's Vehicle mode.

It looks closer to this:

than this:

The only think he has from Prime Bulkhead is the wrecking ball hand.

News Credits: 12 · by **Razorbeast88** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:17 pm

Legacy Bulkhead also has Prime Bulkhead's headsculpt and is closer to Prime Bulkhead's color scheme. Tf:a Bulkhead also has claw hands instead of regular hands

But I agree that the alt mode is more similar to TF:A Bulkhead. Hoping the Wreckers release has different color scheme and head sculpt. Swinging wrecking ball would be dope too, but that might be a little too much to wish for

by **ZeldaTheSwordsman** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:25 pm

Nemesis Primal wrote:
Sentinel_Primal wrote:Personally, I like the Iguanus update and am excited to see the rumored Skullgrin (I think he was the other one), but I also would like a Metalhawk that's not just a massive human that contorts into a jet
Metalhawk (and by extension most of the other early Autobot Pretenders) are in that 10% where I would want more deviance from the shell designs for that exact reason. Ideally I would want them to do the inner bot design for Metalhawk and then dudes like Cloudburst would either have their shell design minus the human face, or a design that was a hybrid of the shell design and inner bot design.

Basing him off the inner robot is the ONLY proper way to do Metalhawk, IMO. Because Metalhawk's primary fiction, Masterforce, prioritized the inner robots - and because unlike other non-Beast Pretenders of that year (well, and Grand, but Grand is a Cerebros recolor with a shell created after the original mold's development so he doesn't really count), Metalhawk's inner robot was designed as a true vehicle robot rather than a robot action figure with grudging concessions to being a vehicle.

Overcracker wrote:In the subject of Bulkhead I still don't understand why people say he's based off of Prime Bulkhead, when he's clearly a g1-ified version of Animated Bulkhead's Vehicle mode.

Because his head skews more towards Prime Bulkhead, and because that's who the designers said they started with when G1-ifying the character.

News Credits: 5 · by **Overcracker** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:35 pm

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Overcracker wrote:In the subject of Bulkhead I still don't understand why people say he's based off of Prime Bulkhead, when he's clearly a g1-ified version of Animated Bulkhead's Vehicle mode.
Because his head skews more towards Prime Bulkhead, and because that's who the designers said they started with when G1-ifying the character.

Well that doesn't make much sense. That's like staying they wanted to make a homage to Transformers Prime Prowl, and then making him a motorcycle.

News Credits: 10 · by **sol magnus** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:50 pm

Showed up today rather than April 2.

by **ZeldaTheSwordsman** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:51 pm

Overcracker wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Overcracker wrote:In the subject of Bulkhead I still don't understand why people say he's based off of Prime Bulkhead, when he's clearly a g1-ified version of Animated Bulkhead's Vehicle mode.
Because his head skews more towards Prime Bulkhead, and because that's who the designers said they started with when G1-ifying the character.

Well that doesn't make much sense. That's like staying they wanted to make a homage to Transformers Prime Prowl, and then making him a motorcycle.

Eh.... It's a big truck either way. And the boxier silhouette is more faux-'80s than a ginormous pickup.

Honestly, given the construction of the truck (cargo bed with a cover, big windows on the cab) I'd say it's closer to what AoE Hound (who despite the name he's benchwarming, has a very Bulkhead-y design) turns into. Animated Bulkhead was an APC.

News Credits: 11 · by **primalxconvoy** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:03 pm

I do think it's high time we got ourselves some Pretenders. Maybe they will sell all of the inner robots as micromaster/legend-sized figures, with the "shells" as deluxe figures? Of course, Optimus, Megs, Bumblebee, etc would have to be Pretenders too, but that would be fine, considering we've had pretender classics and convention exclusive versions that they could be based upon. The shells could, as stated, be more like Magnus armour and also interact with the "core" robots like weapon/fossilizers? They could also make Optimus, Grimlock, Megatron and any other "big" characters' shells as leader or larger sized figures?

Then, it's only a matter of time before we get Monstructor and then TT Mall/Selects exclusive Dinodorxe set, perchance?

News Credits: 65 · by **Wolfman Jake** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:27 pm

Razorbeast88 wrote:Legacy Bulkhead also has Prime Bulkhead's headsculpt and is closer to Prime Bulkhead's color scheme. Tf:a Bulkhead also has claw hands instead of regular hands

But I agree that the alt mode is more similar to TF:A Bulkhead. Hoping the Wreckers release has different color scheme and head sculpt. Swinging wrecking ball would be dope too, but that might be a little too much to wish for

Also, it literally says “Prime Universe Bulkhead” on the package, multiple times. So yeah, there’s THAT reason as well explaining why people refer to him as Prime Bulkhead.

News Credits: 12 · by **Razorbeast88** » Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:32 pm

Wolfman Jake wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:Legacy Bulkhead also has Prime Bulkhead's headsculpt and is closer to Prime Bulkhead's color scheme. Tf:a Bulkhead also has claw hands instead of regular hands

But I agree that the alt mode is more similar to TF:A Bulkhead. Hoping the Wreckers release has different color scheme and head sculpt. Swinging wrecking ball would be dope too, but that might be a little too much to wish for

Also, it literally says “Prime Universe Bulkhead” on the package, multiple times. So yeah, there’s THAT reason as well explaining why people refer to him as Prime Bulkhead.

Hahaha yeah pretty hard to argue with that one