Seibertron.com's video reviews of War for Cybertron SIEGE Deluxe Sideswipe, Cog, Hound and Skytread

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Second, I'm trying to confirm whether or not the others are actually as "too small" as I originally thought based on the Sideswipe and Optimus comparisons. That's why I want to compare Siege Sideswipe with non-Siege Deluxes that aren't Universe Sideswipe, and Siege Optimus to Combiner Wars Optimus (who Seibertron annoyingly left out of his little comparison lineup). I'm trying to thoroughly test my impression to make sure I'm not off the mark.

I added some new pictures to the Optimus Prime gallery just for you. Does this answer your question in regards to a comparison between Combiner Wars Optimus Prime and Siege Optimus Prime? Just for kicks, I also added AOE Voyager Class Evasion Mode Optimus Prime as well. Hope this helps clarify his size for you and anyone else wondering!

Personally, I was never a fan of Combiner Wars Optimus Prime because he doesn't really meet my requirements for what a G1 Optimus Prime toy should look like.


Transformers War for Cybertron: SIEGE Optimus Prime Gallery


Transformers War for Cybertron: SIEGE Optimus Prime Gallery


Transformers War for Cybertron: SIEGE Optimus Prime Gallery

Yes it does, thank you very much for taking the trouble to do this.

I'm sorry to say that it looks like I'll be passing on him... He's a really, really cool design, but...
:C

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I'm sorry to say that it looks like I'll be passing on him.

even after Seibertron went out of his way for you

Thanks for the Siege Deluxe Class reviews, Seibertron. I've seen quite a few different reviewers' takes on these same figures now, and it's interesting to see which figures are a particular reviewer's favorites. There's not a lot of consensus on which ones are the best (or the most flawed), which makes me believe there is something to really love about each of these figures.

I too am a little disappointed that we're not getting more of these blaster effects than what little comes with each of the Battle Master figures. My hope is that for SDCC next year, or through some other premium outlet, we get a big set of different effects parts, done in all sorts of colors, so we can create some massive battle scenes for our Siege figures without having to buy multiple copies of the Battle Masters. Honestly, Hasbro would be fools not to do something like this. They'd sell like hotcakes.

A good figure is a good figure no matter the size. The problem with some of the early Generations figures was that they were both smaller and simpler, but these are just as complex as anything we've seen before, maybe even more so, despite the smaller size. I think as we see more figures show up in WfC and the new scale comes together we're going to see more interest these wave 1 figures.

Emerje

Seibertron wrote:Personally, I was never a fan of Combiner Wars Optimus Prime because he doesn't really meet my requirements for what a G1 Optimus Prime toy should look like.

(...)


Transformers War for Cybertron: SIEGE Optimus Prime Gallery

Beefcake works for Motormaster, it worked for his redeco Grand Scourge:


Transformers Unite Warriors Grand Scourge Gallery

... but it does not work for Optimus Prime himself. Amazing study of expected character attributes, that.

Wolfman Jake wrote:I too am a little disappointed that we're not getting more of these blaster effects than what little comes with each of the Battle Master figures. My hope is that for SDCC next year, or through some other premium outlet, we get a big set of different effects parts, done in all sorts of colors, so we can create some massive battle scenes for our Siege figures without having to buy multiple copies of the Battle Masters. Honestly, Hasbro would be fools not to do something like this. They'd sell like hotcakes.

Do we know if the C.O.M.B.A.T system features like Fire Blasts are specific to Siege or if they'll be present across the entire WfC trilogy? I'm hopeful for more Battle Masters than have been announced, but the best scenario would be if they continue to include Fire Blasts in the next line, even if it's part of a different pack-in.

Hey, beefcake worked for Cybertron Optimus Prime

I do admit, Combiner Wars Optimus is a bit too beefy in robot mode for a G1 Optimus, but it could be worse and I still like his proportions waaay better than Classics Optimus. And I like his size exponentially better. Classics Optimus is undersize next to Cybertron Voyagers (and the same-size-different-name-for-it figures from Armada and Energon), undersize next to movie Voyagers, and undersize next to his fellow Claasics Voyagers. Combiner Wars Optimus on the other hand is reasonably within the Goldilocks zone.

All the same he definitely has his drawbacks, so I had been eagerly looking forward to Siege Optimus as an upgrade to be my new primary CHUG Optimus. Which is why I was crushed to see that he was so small, and that the Siege Autobot Cars had suffered the same shrinkage...

At least the Battlemasters, Weaponizer Deluxes, Skytread, and Reflector will still be good and I'm still looking forward to those..

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Beefcake works for Motormaster, it worked for his redeco Grand Scourge:


Transformers Unite Warriors Grand Scourge Gallery

... but it does not work for Optimus Prime himself. Amazing study of expected character attributes, that.

You could argue it works for BCOP as well if you think of that figure as a powerup, but I've never cared for the mold as a standard OP himself. Siege or Classics OP is the perfect size and shape for me.

Emerje

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:All the same he definitely has his drawbacks, so I had been eagerly looking forward to Siege Optimus as an upgrade to be my new primary CHUG Optimus. Which is why I was crushed to see that he was so small, and that the Siege Autobot Cars had suffered the same shrinkage...

There's still that yet-to-be-seen Leader coming in wave 2, you may still get you're larger Optimus since Ultra Magnus and Shockwave are about as tall as CW OP.

Emerje

Combiner Wars Optimus Prime is a great CW Motormaster and Nemesis Prime. The mold was intended for Motormaster and was remolded into Optimus Prime, who was interestingly introduced first, but was meant for Motormaster first. Motormaster !== Optimus Prime.

In my book (and essentially off-topic from this forum post), CW Optimus Prime is not a G1 Optimus Prime (despite IDW's fiction). Physically (as a toy), he's more along the lines of a "Monster Convoy" (aka Armada Optimus Prime) or an Energon Optimus Prime.

I still think that Battle Core Prime is spectacular, I love it so much. Never got the red and blue, waited for the Battle Core

Seibertron wrote:Combiner Wars Optimus Prime is a great CW Motormaster and Nemesis Prime. The mold was intended for Motormaster and was remolded into Optimus Prime, who was interestingly introduced first, but was meant for Motormaster first. Motormaster !== Optimus Prime.

In my book (and essentially off-topic from this forum post), CW Optimus Prime is not a G1 Optimus Prime (despite IDW's fiction). Physically (as a toy), he's more along the lines of a "Monster Convoy" (aka Armada Optimus Prime) or an Energon Optimus Prime.

"was meant for Motormaster first"


I find it hard to believe that the mold was designed as Motormaster first. Let's look at some major design details:
* Solitary truck cab instead of cab and trailer all together
* Legs and feet that are blatantly G1 Optimus Prime's and have slots designed for the handles of the Optimus Prime version's guns with one or the other becoming an awkward leftover on Motormaster
* Prominent smokestacks, which are much more a feature of Optimus' design than they are of Motormaster's.

And then there's the janky torso mode that feels very much like it was shoehorned to fit the Optimus Prime robot design rather than the robot being designed to become a good torso. Two major problems:
* The arm sockets tab in with a single thin tab at a bad angle that leads to them getting untabbed whenever you try to swing or sometimes even just rotate attached limb robots. This is especially a problem for Motormaster because Menasor is a sword-user.
* Having the legs face the intended way in torso mode blocks the combined form from being able to bend at the knee with several limb molds (including the Stunticons) because the Optimus Prime feet get in the way; you have to turn the legs tire side forward to fix the problem, and even that only works because the feet are sculpted at a tilt. If they were sculpted straight then knee articulation would be blocked both ways.

So for my money, the CW Optimus mold makes a far better standalone Optimus than it does a good CW Motormaster. And feels very solidly like it was mainly designed as such.

I don't give a rat's fart about the IDW fiction. I treat CW Optimus as a Generations representation of G1 Optimus because he's sculpted to look like him (beefcake proportions aside) - look at the head, look at the legs, look at the primary gun - and colored to look like him, and is of a good size to fill the role in my collection.

Also, now that you've finally included him in the gallery, I believe he would like to say:
"Hi... Thanks for noticing me..."

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Also, now that you've finally included him in the gallery, I believe he would like to say:
"Hi... Thanks for noticing me..."

To which I would say, "you're welcome ... that took about 45 minutes of my time today to do that."

And to you, I would say, I'm fairly certain it was 100% designed as Motormaster first, Optimus Prime second.

Seibertron wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Also, now that you've finally included him in the gallery, I believe he would like to say:
"Hi... Thanks for noticing me..."

To which I would say, "you're welcome ... that took about 45 minutes of my time today to do that."

And to you, I would say, I'm fairly certain it was 100% designed as Motormaster first, Optimus Prime second.

I'd say "citation needed" but I'm guessing it's confidential, so if you say so. I just don't really see it myself what with the Optimus legs and all the other things I pointed out. Even if the mold was designed as Motormaster first, in practice I find the end result to be much more Optimus than it is him.

Btw, did you get the reference with my quote?

Thank you so much seibertron for pandering to these requests, you spoil us. I believe I speak for a lot of fans who are shocked that 1.2cm, or half an inch can make people prefer CW prime to this new gorgeous prime. I weigh it up in my head, one has the right color everywhere, one has a 'new interpretation' with a silver belly, silver shoes, silver biceps and windows that to me at least look way too big. I don't think either of the vehicle modes are perfect, neither much preferable to the other. I think what strikes some of us as most mad, is that CW prime doesn't even look in proportion to himself! Did he have some mad surgery? Or just too much protein and gym?

Galvatronian wrote:one has the right color everywhere

I don't remember an ugly partial (front facing) white stripe on any G1 Optimus Primes Cab before, it could just be the Dinobot thing of gold/yellow is a silver/grey/white thing with Prime but it stands out to me on the Siege figure even if I would have liked the alt mode.

No idea what you mean there. If you're talking about his truck mode, I did say I don't think it's perfect. Perhaps you could show a picture to clarify?

Galvatronian, height counts for a lot. Having toys of G1 characters that size well with not only each other but also other modern mainline figures is one of the main reasons I get CHUG toys. CW Optimus doesn't have the best proportions (which are for reasons of function), but he can stand next to existing CHUG figures as well as RiD 2001, Unicron Trilogy, and mainline movieverse toys without being too small - that's why I picked him over Classics Optimus. That and his proportions and looks beat Classics Optimus hollow IMO. Also, those "silver shoes" on CW Optimus are less a deliberate deco choice and more a result of mold layout meets rigid paint budget. I can easily paint them myself, whereas painting extra height and volume onto a toy... not going to work well. I really like Siege Optimus' design, but the shrinkage he and the other Siege Autobot Cars were subjected to means they wouldn't work out size-wise... I wanted damn near the entire line, but now.. Now it's just the Battlemasters, Weaponizers, Skytread, Reflector, and probably Omega Supreme that I want. It makes me sad.

And gosh, where could CW Optimus' silver biceps and Siege Optimus' front stripe have possibly come from?


It's a complete mystery!

Zelda, I don't understand at all why you think the Combiner Wars Optimus Prime/Motormaster mold prevents knee bend in gestalt mode. I just pulled my Menasor off the shelf and checked. The knees bend 90 degrees backwards without issue. Why you would think such would have anything to do with being designed as Optimus Prime confuses me too.

Also, again, I want to point out to you that the Siege figures aren't "shrinking." The size of Deluxe and Voyager figures have been consistent for many years now. Contemporary Generations figures aren't meant to necessarily match the Classics, Universe 2.0, and early Generations figures in stature or mass. They're certainly not meant to match the completely different movie figure designs or anything from Armada, Energon, or Cybertron. I don't know how you cultivated your expectations, but you clearly set yourself up for disappointment.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Zelda, I don't understand at all why you think the Combiner Wars Optimus Prime/Motormaster mold prevents knee bend in gestalt mode. I just pulled my Menasor off the shelf and checked. The knees bend 90 degrees backwards without issue. Why you would think such would have anything to do with being designed as Optimus Prime confuses me too.

Also, again, I want to point out to you that the Siege figures aren't "shrinking." The size of Deluxe and Voyager figures have been consistent for many years now. Contemporary Generations figures aren't meant to necessarily match the Classics, Universe 2.0, and early Generations figures in stature or mass. They're certainly not meant to match the completely different movie figure designs or anything from Armada, Energon, or Cybertron. I don't know how you cultivated your expectations, but you clearly set yourself up for disappointment.

"The size of Deluxe and Voyager figures have been consistent for many years now" - that's my bloody point! They have consistently hovered in the 1/32 scale neighborhood (and those who aren't are in robot mode scale with those who are)! Which has meant that contemporary stuff like Prime Wars Deluxes are, in fact, comparable in stature and altmode size with older Generations and Universe stuff - I know, I've checked. So why was it so unreasonable for me to expect Siege stuff to be the same size as Prime Wars stuff when as you say we've had consistency for years?

No matter their gains in mass, the Siege figures are ABSOLUTELY shrinking substantially in stature - what else do you want to call Siege Sideswipe only coming up to the bottom of Universe Sideswipe's armpit (or Titans Return Hot Rod's for that matter)? They're shrinking in altmode too, with Optimus and the Autobot Cars looking to be more in the 1/45 scale range.

As for going with AEC/movie stuff.. I know that obviously CHUG stuff contemporary or otherwise isn't designed to do that per se, but the whole "hovering around 1/32 scale" thing has meant that plenty of figures essentially do anyway.

As for why I think the CW Optimus/Motormaster mold prevents knee bend in gestalt mode unless you have the legs facing tires-side forward? I found out FROM EXPERIENCE that it does so. With the legs facing the intended way, several limbs will bump against the feet and have to be forced past to bend further. The Breakdown mold doesn't have any issues, but the Dead End/Streetwise mold does, especially the Streetwise version. Which makes it feel like the toy was designed more as a standalone Optimus, because you'd think -you'd hope - that if the mold was designed first as a combiner torso they'd have been paying better attention to clearances.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:No matter their gains in mass, the Siege figures are ABSOLUTELY shrinking substantially in stature - what else do you want to call Siege Sideswipe only coming up to the bottom of Universe Sideswipe's armpit

But Universe Sideswipe is out of scale so why would he be considered for a staple of scale? He is obscenely tall and looks terrible next to Classics Prime.

He is also much bigger than Unicron trilogy deluxes.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Which makes it feel like the toy was designed more as a standalone Optimus, because you'd think -you'd hope - that if the mold was designed first as a combiner torso they'd have been paying better attention to clearances.

It was never designed as a stand alone Optimus, Warden confirmed that the entire main line fitting within only a few combiner molds was the intent from the start. Its how he got the greenlight to make so many characters.

So all along, from the begining that mold was made with Motormaster in mind.

I'm actually glad that the Voyagers are smaller now, even if it's just by a head. Works better with what I have.
Besides that, overall I think they're really good with robot scale this round.

I want these toys already!

Does it even make sense for CW Motormaster to have originally been a reworked Optimus Prime in a line about G1 combiners? Not really. Any elements of Prime being used in Motormaster is purely for cost cutting, people are going to be more forgiving of Prime parts on MM than MM parts on Prime. We saw the same thing in TR with Prime and Octane, a mold that was without a doubt intended to be the latter, but still featured traits of the former like the shoulder pylons. Optimus is always going to be a big seller, but it's more about choosing a truck character and then trying to figure out how to work Optimus into it than the other way around.

Emerje

Cyberpath wrote:I'm actually glad that the Voyagers are smaller now, even if it's just by a head. Works better with what I have.
Besides that, overall I think they're really good with robot scale this round.

I want these toys already!

I have always used Classics OP as my main Prime so this new toy being the same height means nothing changes for me in terms of scale. Combiner Wars Optimus Prime never worked for me and thus i never got him. And thats the general concensus. And its because there was so little interest in him that he was never repacked and thus now worth a fortune (along with many RID toys that fans also ignored). But that just means that most collections across the globe do not have CW Optimus as the toy to base the scale out of. 15 years later, Classics OP is still the benchmark for scale.

Emerje wrote: Optimus is always going to be a big seller, but it's more about choosing a truck character and then trying to figure out how to work Optimus into it than the other way around.

Emerje

Yup which is why Siege Optimus is so special. He is the first generations Optimus voyager to be made principally for Optimus.

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:No matter their gains in mass, the Siege figures are ABSOLUTELY shrinking substantially in stature - what else do you want to call Siege Sideswipe only coming up to the bottom of Universe Sideswipe's armpit

But Universe Sideswipe is out of scale so why would he be considered for a staple of scale? He is obscenely tall and looks terrible next to Classics Prime.

Universe Sideswip: 1/34
Universe Prowl: 1/34
Generations Wheeljack: 1/33
Classics Mirage: 1/33
Universe Hound: 1/32
RTS Jazz: 1/32
Classics Prime: 1/43
Somebody's out of scale there alright, but it's not Sideswipe.


Seems to me that rather than the Universe Sideswipe mold being grossly oversize, the Classics Optimus mold is grossly undersize. That's why I prefer CW Optimus and was glad that he came along - I've long thought that Classics Optimus was too small.

Also, would you consider Prime Wars Deluxes such as TR Hot Rod to be "grossly tall"? Because, uh...

william-james88 wrote:He is also much bigger than Unicron trilogy deluxes.

Evidence says otherwise. Only one he towers over is your least favorite, who would be at the same height as Siege Sideswipe. For the record, Hot Shot there is 1/32 scale.

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Which makes it feel like the toy was designed more as a standalone Optimus, because you'd think -you'd hope - that if the mold was designed first as a combiner torso they'd have been paying better attention to clearances.

It was never designed as a stand alone Optimus, Warden confirmed that the entire main line fitting within only a few combiner molds was the intent from the start. Its how he got the greenlight to make so many characters.

So all along, from the begining that mold was made with Motormaster in mind.

Allow me to emphasize the key word here a bit more. I accept that the mold was designed as Motormaster and being a torso first, it just doesn't feel like it was to me. Because of the looks and because of the function issues I've had with it as a torso. It feels like the Optimus robot mode aspects got prioritized over the Motormaster and combiner torso mode aspects.

william-james88 wrote:

Cyberpath wrote:I'm actually glad that the Voyagers are smaller now, even if it's just by a head. Works better with what I have.
Besides that, overall I think they're really good with robot scale this round.

I want these toys already!

I have always used Classics OP as my main Prime so this new toy being the same height means nothing changes for me in terms of scale. Combiner Wars Optimus Prime never worked for me and thus i never got him. And thats the general concensus. And its because there was so little interest in him that he was never repacked and thus now worth a fortune (along with many RID toys that fans also ignored). But that just means that most collections across the globe do not have CW Optimus as the toy to base the scale out of. 15 years later, Classics OP is still the benchmark for scale.

Never got CW Prime either. Not PotP. And neither one of the TR Primes. Just the old Deluxe, which was more like an action figure than a Transformer.

Oh, and the RM/LC one, but as its own thing, since he's too small to work with my CHUG shelf.

Was never able to find a decent priced Henkei Prime, but there's really no need with this new Siege version.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Seems to me that rather than the Universe Sideswipe mold being grossly oversize, the Classics Optimus mold is grossly undersize. That's why I prefer CW Optimus and was glad that he came along - I've long thought that Classics Optimus was too small.

But Classics Optimus came first, so why are we establishing scale based on something that came after?

Also, as you can see in your pics, that scale is way off from the scale they should be. WFC is correcting lots of scale problems we had.

I say, it matters not the size of a hero, but more important is their pureness of heart, and the ferocity with which they fight to defend those in need!

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Seems to me that rather than the Universe Sideswipe mold being grossly oversize, the Classics Optimus mold is grossly undersize. That's why I prefer CW Optimus and was glad that he came along - I've long thought that Classics Optimus was too small.

But Classics Optimus came first, so why are we establishing scale based on something that came after?

Because early though he may be, Classics Optimus is but one figure, far outnumbered by those more in line with 1/32ish scale. Plus he was undersize even when he came out. Within the Classics line alone, both Classics Mirage and Bumblebee were to a larger scale than he was, and he came up a bit short next to Classics Megatron.

william-james88 wrote:Also, as you can see in your pics, that scale is way off from the scale they should be. WFC is correcting lots of scale problems we had.

No, it's making them worse because it's taking the wrong approach. Sunstreaker, Prowl, and Jazz are all more or less the right size relative to each other compared to that chart, Hound and Mirage seem to be about right too, and later CHUG figures like the Prime Wars ones are in the same size range as them (see below).


So it seems to me like what Hasbro ought to have done was enlarge Optimus, Ratchet, and Ironhide to match everyone else, rather than shrink everyone down to Classics Optimus' scale and completely invalidate most of the preceding CHUG toys scale-wise.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:"The size of Deluxe and Voyager figures have been consistent for many years now" - that's my bloody point! They have consistently hovered in the 1/32 scale neighborhood (and those who aren't are in robot mode scale with those who are)! Which has meant that contemporary stuff like Prime Wars Deluxes are, in fact, comparable in stature and altmode size with older Generations and Universe stuff - I know, I've checked. So why was it so unreasonable for me to expect Siege stuff to be the same size as Prime Wars stuff when as you say we've had consistency for years?

No matter their gains in mass, the Siege figures are ABSOLUTELY shrinking substantially in stature - what else do you want to call Siege Sideswipe only coming up to the bottom of Universe Sideswipe's armpit (or Titans Return Hot Rod's for that matter)? They're shrinking in altmode too, with Optimus and the Autobot Cars looking to be more in the 1/45 scale range.

As for going with AEC/movie stuff.. I know that obviously CHUG stuff contemporary or otherwise isn't designed to do that per se, but the whole "hovering around 1/32 scale" thing has meant that plenty of figures essentially do anyway.

No, you're skipping over a significant portion of the past 14 years of the "Generations" line (starting in 2006 with "Classics"). The downsizing began roughly with the "Fall of Cybertron" line and continued into the Thrilling 30 line. It was at that point that we even saw a downsizing in the Leader class, as T30 Jetfire was a smaller, less massive, electronics-less Leader Class figure, compared to what we had been used to in the era of the Unicron Trilogy and the first couple of movie lines.

With the Prime Wars Trilogy, we got some more variance in size classes, but mostly because of gimmicks. Combiner Wars and Power of the Primes Deluxes and Voyagers are just a bit larger than normal due to structural concerns with the gestalt modes. They're lighter, so as not to add too much weight to the overall combined mode. Most of them have substantial cavities inside, to increase the surface area and structural support points while minimizing weight. In Titans Return, we've got another consideration in the form of having sizeable "cockpits" for the Titan Masters to sit inside the Deluxe and Voyager vehicle modes. Adding those cavities means that sometimes the robot mode will have a large area of nothing inside that all the other mass forms around. In some instances, though, Hasbro and Takara found clever ways to collapse those spaces to make more compact figures. That's why we get a considerably wide variance among size classes in Titans Return, but nothing is so egregiously out of scale compared to anything else that they don't look like they fit into the same line.

Those kinds of gimmicks are now gone with the Siege line, so we're back to where we were, essentially, with Thrilling 30 in terms of size and mass of figures overall. Just line within Titans Return, we really don't have a huge size variance among toys within the same size class from T30 onward. The difference between anything pre-Fall of Cybertron and post is, of course, going to be very noticeable, which is where the bulk of your comparison is being done, which is why you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Even pointing out oddities like the smallness of Classics Optimus Prime or the apparent tallness of TR Hot Rod, doesn't really help your argument. Classics Optimus is weirdly small compared to the rest of the Classics and Universe 2008 line up. TR Hot Rod does look tall, but it's because he's got high shoulders. Measure up to his head instead, and you'll find that he's not at all out of scale with his contemporaries. These are exceptions that prove the rule, so to speak.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:As for why I think the CW Optimus/Motormaster mold prevents knee bend in gestalt mode unless you have the legs facing tires-side forward? I found out FROM EXPERIENCE that it does so. With the legs facing the intended way, several limbs will bump against the feet and have to be forced past to bend further. The Breakdown mold doesn't have any issues, but the Dead End/Streetwise mold does, especially the Streetwise version. Which makes it feel like the toy was designed more as a standalone Optimus, because you'd think -you'd hope - that if the mold was designed first as a combiner torso they'd have been paying better attention to clearances.

Well, from my experience, I've not had any trouble with bending the knees back 90 degrees on the Optimus/Motormaster mold. How are you getting "clearance issues?" Those wheels behind the legs don't bump into anything at the combination joint, nor on the back of any combiner limb. The robot mode feet of the Voyager torso stick off to the side. That's the intended configuration. Are you putting the feet at the back or front for some reason? That's not the correct configuration. Like I said before, I just earlier today played around with my Menasor after you made your complaints and found none of what you purported to be accurate. Why don't you take some pictures of what you think the problem is?

Wolfman Jake wrote: Why don't you take some pictures of what you think the problem is?

That would be fine and good, but if you do, please move this conversation to the Combiner Wars thread as not to diverge to far from the topic of this thread. Thanks!

So, my generations Dirge is 14.2 cm or 5" 10 sixteenths to the top of his conehead. He's based on the classic seeker mold. So I think classics starscream would be 12.9 cm or 5" 2 sixteenths to the top of his head.
Universe deluxe; drag strip 13.5cm. voyager; inferno 18.4cm
Generations deluxe; arcee 13cm, tankor 12cm, skids 13.1cm. voyager; blitzwing 18.4cm, springer 17.8cm
CW(I have no deluxes); voyager; onslaught 17.5cm, scattershot 17.8cm
TR deluxe; hot rod 14.1cm, Kup 14.8cm, triggerhappy 13.8cm. voyager; megatron 17.9cm, astrotrain 18.2cm
POTP deluxe; dreadwing (cw mold) 13.6cm, swoop 13.2cm, Punch 14.4cm. Voyagers; Grimlock 17cm, Starscream 17.5cm
All of these are measured to the top of their heads.

Wolfman Jake, you misunderstand me. I was going] by TR Hot Rod's head height since he's about average for TR head height and he was handy:

This is how their head heights compare. Hot Rod is a little shorter...

...but it's nothing compared to this.

The Combiner Wars Breakdown mold is also shorter than the Universe Sideswipe mold, but definitely not by as much as the Siege Sideswipe mold. Yes, there's hollows involved but I don't find them that big a detractor.
I still don't think it was all that unreasonable to expect TR or at least CW/POTP heights...

The Siege stuff still seems small even by the T30 standard. Like, Sideswipe is at best as tall as T30 Arcee (one of the smaller T30 Deluxes, looking at Skids, Armada Starscream, etc). Optimus appears to be the same height as Classics Optimus, who is shorter than T30 Springer and Blitzwing (who are themselves shorter than CW Optimus and fellow T30 Voyager, Brainstorm).

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Wolfman Jake, you misunderstand me. I was going] by TR Hot Rod's head height since he's about average for TR head height and he was handy:

This is how their head heights compare. Hot Rod is a little shorter...

...but it's nothing compared to this.

The Combiner Wars Breakdown mold is also shorter than the Universe Sideswipe mold, but definitely not by as much as the Siege Sideswipe mold. Yes, there's hollows involved but I don't find them that big a detractor.
I still don't think it was all that unreasonable to expect TR or at least CW/POTP heights...

The Siege stuff still seems small even by the T30 standard. Like, Sideswipe is at best as tall as T30 Arcee (one of the smaller T30 Deluxes, looking at Skids, Armada Starscream, etc). Optimus appears to be the same height as Classics Optimus, who is shorter than T30 Springer and Blitzwing (who are themselves shorter than CW Optimus and fellow T30 Voyager, Brainstorm).

I'll be happy to take some pictures of the Siege Deluxes (Sideswipe especially) along with plenty of Combiner Wars, Titans Return, and Power of the Primes Deluxes for the sake of settling this. It does look like CW Sunstreaker will be just a bit taller than Sideswipe, but then again, that's how it's supposed to be. Check out some of the old Sunbow style charts as well as the current Masterpiece figures. TR Hot Rod is fairly tall for a TR figure. Compare him to other TR figures like Blurr or Kup. They're more in line with Siege Deluxes, for sure. Also, T30 Brainstorm wasn't made with Classics Optimus in mind. It was just a one-off figure to celebrate Headmasters as part of the history of Transformers. He's way oversized in terms of scale compared to the Deluxe version we got for TR. We're getting a new, better scaled Springer in Siege as well now. We already got a replacement, resized Blitzwing in TR too. Compare some of those Thrilling 30 examples you've given to other Voyagers from that same line, like Roadbuster, Whirl, or even Rhinox. You can't just cherry pick these oddly big toys and use them as a benchmark to claim Siege is significantly scaled down from what we've had for the past 5 years.

Wolfman Jake wrote:You can't just cherry pick these oddly big toys and use them as a benchmark to claim Siege is significantly scaled down from what we've had for the past 5 years.

I am not purposely cherrypicking "oddly big figures". I specifically said:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Wolfman Jake, you misunderstand me. I was going] by TR Hot Rod's head height since he's about average for TR head height and he was handy

See for yourself! Blurr is shorter but not by a huge margin, Highbrow and Hardhead are about the same, Kup is actually taller.

I didn't think Springer (the only T30 Voyager I own) was "oddly big" for a T30 voyager. I figured Brainstorm was after checking the gallery for comparison, but not Springer. I assumed Springer was average for a T30 voyager and when I checked his gallery and saw Blitzwing was the same height but with more bulk I figured that was confirmation.

You mentioned Roadbuster and Whirl, so I decided to check their galleries while writing this. Well..

Whirl and Springer seem to be around the same height, with Whirl being maybe a little taller.

And Roadbuster is about the same as Whirl. So.... Is T30 Springer really "oddly big"?

A big reason I brought up T30 Springer's height as compared to Classics Prime is, the height difference between T30 Springer and T30 Arcee looks to be the proper height difference between Optimus and Sideswipe based on the scale chart. So if I'm right about Siege Sideswipe being about the same height as T30 Arcee and Siege Optimus being the same height as Classics Optimus, that would make Siege Optimus too short! If I'm right.

If you have all the toys you want at the height you want and Wolfman Jake gets all the toys he wants at the height he wants, then what is the point to any of this? I think that just means that Hasbro was right to give us so many height options in toys so that we can pick and choose the versions of the characters that work best for us. Since I have always been using classics primes in my battle scenes (since thats the Prime that looks most like Optimus to me) the size of this new one wont make a difference. I just get a better looking Prime

Here are some more comparisons for fun. I might make an article on it on thursday as a TBT kind of thing. It could give an idea of whether or not a toy is worth replacing (personally, I think Universe sideswipe looks bad regardless of the scale factor)

Yeah, Universe Sideswipe is not the greatest looking (I think the mold would look way better as Lightfoot/Getaway) especially because his headsculpt is Fansproject-ugly.

Perhaps you could take photos of Siege Sideswipe next to the TR deluxes and such? Right now Universe Sideswipe is the only non-Siege Deluxe I've seen him compared with.

I also took some pictures, William James. Great minds think alike, as usual.

I just grabbed an assortment of Deluxe Class figures of various sizes from my "Classics" shelves, spanning from Universe 2.0 to Power of the Primes. Here they are. The latter pics showcase pairings with Universe 2.0 Sideswipe and/or Universe 2.0 Hound with a handy ruler for a rough estimate of absolute height. I say "rough estimate" because I didn't have something to hold the ruler at a precise perpendicular angle to the surface upon which I posed my figures, meaning it could be leaning a bit forward or backward depending on the shot, changing the reading by a mm or so either way. Anyway, here's what I came up with:



Enjoy!

So I've been playing with Transformers wrong this whole time. I thought transformation was the primary play gimmick. Who knew it was height?

carytheone wrote:So I've been playing with Transformers wrong this whole time. I thought transformation was the primary play gimmick. Who knew it was height?

Zelda knew, haven't you been paying attention

AcademyofDrX wrote:

carytheone wrote:So I've been playing with Transformers wrong this whole time. I thought transformation was the primary play gimmick. Who knew it was height?

Zelda knew, haven't you been paying attention

Nope, I've been having too much fun playing with my micromasters

I really don't get any of this. Siege is supposed to be a new starting point for Generations with a new scale to go with it, who cares if they're smaller than figures from 10 years ago? Might as well complain about Siege Sideswipe being smaller than Cyber Battalion Sideswipe, he's a Generations figure at the same price point too after all.

Emerje

I'll admit that I am unusually uncaring about scale even for a TF fan, but the size doesn't bother me really. Prime actually looks about the right size to me at least. Also Sideswipe is a massive improvement on his Universe toy so eh. I will say, if they release a G2 version with extra weapons and a Yanigerlicious headsculpt I'll be very happy. G2 Sideswipe is best Sideswipe.

On a completely unrelated note a subject came up in the 4chan Transformers general that intrigued me- if you could pick any combiner to be made in Siege, who would it be? I myself would be torn between Menasor (CW Menasor was the runt of the toyline, which is a shame as he's one of the coolest combiner teams IMO) and maybe Raiden (because A: he hasn't gotten any love from anyone and B: Cybertronian trains would be pretty cool alt modes).

carytheone wrote:So I've been playing with Transformers wrong this whole time. I thought transformation was the primary play gimmick. Who knew it was height?

Size and articulation are fun secondary play gimmicks, and big reasons for my getting the CHUG toys of G1 characters instead of just sticking to the G1 toys (and also why I got PotP Starscream rather than Classics). I'm disappointed by Siege Sideswipe's size because it's looking like he'd be smaller enough compared to other CHUG Autobot cars - even the TR ones - that they'd be able to just sit on him
But then again, the only non-Siege Deluxe I've actually seen Siege Sideswipe with is Universe Sideswipe. I haven't seen him compared to Universe Prowl or Generations Wheeljack or Jazz or to Prime Wars and T30 deluxes.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:But then again, the only non-Siege Deluxe I've actually seen Siege Sideswipe with is Universe Sideswipe. I haven't seen him compared to Universe Prowl or Generations Wheeljack or Jazz or to Prime Wars and T30 deluxes.

If we're putting request in for size comparisons, (even though they are bastard cousins at best) I'd like to see the Seige figures with some of the previous WfC/FoC figures. That will be my most likely grouping anyway.

That's a really good point. The only other Cybertronian vehicles we've really gotten have been WFC/FOC. Curious how those will scale as well.

Glad Sideswipe was one of the first they redid. His video game version really was far off base for what I picture him like. Too curvy for a crisp, angular character.

gothsaurus wrote:That's a really good point. The only other Cybertronian vehicles we've really gotten have been WFC/FOC. Curious how those will scale as well.

Glad Sideswipe was one of the first they redid. His video game version really was far off base for what I picture him like. Too curvy for a crisp, angular character.

Not the best game to plastic transformation either.





His weapon is cool and was given to Prime the second it was freed from the blister.

Again, wrong thread, wrong line, no relation and no chance in hell; but I'd love to see them finish the WfC/FoC line.