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Speaking as someone who hasn't watched this thing yet (no Netflix, been too busy watching other stuff, etc) but knows enough about it to determine it's probably not for me, I'm beginning to wonder if half the problem is the very most basic premise of "What if G1 was DARK and GRITTY!?!".

"Remaking" G1 seems oddly pointless. Whilst far from perfect- very, very far- it was still relatively entertaining. I'd even argue a large part of what made it fun was how silly it was; putting aside the questionable animation, this is the series where as but one example, Blaster gets kidnapped by a giant pair of hands emerging from a billboard. And this wasn't a toned-down adaptation of an existing story- this was what Transformers was.

That's not to say every TF series has to be this daft, but if your aim is "Higher quality G1 cartoon" then trying to make it gritty and grimdark is kind of missing the point; because if you want to make G1 a serious war story, you have to change so much stuff that it's not really G1 anymore. That wouldn't be a problem if the aim was just to make an original TF series that has a darker tone, but when the whole thing is pitched as a G1 remake with G1 characters, you start to run into problems.

I also feel like the attempt to make everything dark and serious is itself kind of a mistake, and poorly executed. "Dark and gritty reboots" are 10 a penny and most of them are terrible, and "mature = dark" series in general are just kind of overdone at this point. Plus, the way they're done, with everything being predictably dull and washed out, is just tiresome and extremely uncreative.

If you want an example of a dark series done well (and totally not just because I rewatched it recently and have it as my avatar), Puella Magi Madoka Magica combines the trappings and aesthetics of a cute, happy series with an impeccably executed tragic story, and at times reaches soul-crushing depths of despair, capped off with an absolutely beautiful bittersweet ending. Yes, it's incredibly dark, but it isn't completely dripping with attempts at grittiness and everything being dull and grey. The characters are adorable, there are moments of levity, the world itself is meticulously designed (SHAFT's architectural skills really should be applauded), and in general there is a perfect balance of lighthearted moments with heartwrenching tragedy.

So where am I going with all this? Simply put- the approach to making this series was completely wrong. If they wanted to make a grim, dark story, they should have distanced themselves further from G1 to give themselves more room for creativity. There's plenty of "original" TF series, and one more wouldn't have hurt; heck, some of the best TF media has been unrelated to G1 (*COUGH* Animated *COUGH*). And if they wanted to tell a G1 story, they really should have made it a lot more lighthearted, just because Sunbow G1 and "serious war story" do not mix very well. And there's nothing wrong with having a story that isn't just nonstop hurr durr grimdark- The Bumblebee movie was pretty lighthearted on the whole and that was superb.

TLDR: G1 was not a dark and gritty series, and treating it as such is a one way ticket to failtown on the disappointment express.

I'd also argue that the choice in creative talent was probably not the best, but that's a spiel for another time, and I also feel that even with the greatest talent in the world, the series' premise doomed it from the beginning.

Black Hat wrote:Speaking as someone who hasn't watched this thing yet (no Netflix, been too busy watching other stuff, etc) but knows enough about it to determine it's probably not for me, I'm beginning to wonder if half the problem is the very most basic premise of "What if G1 was DARK and GRITTY!?!".

"Remaking" G1 seems oddly pointless. Whilst far from perfect- very, very far- it was still relatively entertaining. I'd even argue a large part of what made it fun was how silly it was; putting aside the questionable animation, this is the series where as but one example, Blaster gets kidnapped by a giant pair of hands emerging from a billboard. And this wasn't a toned-down adaptation of an existing story- this was what Transformers was.

That's not to say every TF series has to be this daft, but if your aim is "Higher quality G1 cartoon" then trying to make it gritty and grimdark is kind of missing the point; because if you want to make G1 a serious war story, you have to change so much stuff that it's not really G1 anymore. That wouldn't be a problem if the aim was just to make an original TF series that has a darker tone, but when the whole thing is pitched as a G1 remake with G1 characters, you start to run into problems.

I also feel like the attempt to make everything dark and serious is itself kind of a mistake, and poorly executed. "Dark and gritty reboots" are 10 a penny and most of them are terrible, and "mature = dark" series in general are just kind of overdone at this point. Plus, the way they're done, with everything being predictably dull and washed out, is just tiresome and extremely uncreative.

If you want an example of a dark series done well (and totally not just because I rewatched it recently and have it as my avatar), Puella Magi Madoka Magica combines the trappings and aesthetics of a cute, happy series with an impeccably executed tragic story, and at times reaches soul-crushing depths of despair, capped off with an absolutely beautiful bittersweet ending. Yes, it's incredibly dark, but it isn't completely dripping with attempts at grittiness and everything being dull and grey. The characters are adorable, there are moments of levity, the world itself is meticulously designed (SHAFT's architectural skills really should be applauded), and in general there is a perfect balance of lighthearted moments with heartwrenching tragedy.

So where am I going with all this? Simply put- the approach to making this series was completely wrong. If they wanted to make a grim, dark story, they should have distanced themselves further from G1 to give themselves more room for creativity. There's plenty of "original" TF series, and one more wouldn't have hurt; heck, some of the best TF media has been unrelated to G1 (*COUGH* Animated *COUGH*). And if they wanted to tell a G1 story, they really should have made it a lot more lighthearted, just because Sunbow G1 and "serious war story" do not mix very well. And there's nothing wrong with having a story that isn't just nonstop hurr durr grimdark- The Bumblebee movie was pretty lighthearted on the whole and that was superb.

TLDR: G1 was not a dark and gritty series, and treating it as such is a one way ticket to failtown on the disappointment express.

I'd also argue that the choice in creative talent was probably not the best, but that's a spiel for another time, and I also feel that even with the greatest talent in the world, the series' premise doomed it from the beginning.

Well said and a good example using Madoka, something that appeared light and fluffy but hid its true self till the right moment.

Though it is funny to think of this as a reverse tmnt in a way as the original tmnt comic was the complete opposite of the main thing its known for...the Cartoon

Seibertron wrote:

ScottyP wrote:Also, I don't think WfC was for us. I think it was for the casual Netflix viewer that probably watched the movies and maybe TF Prime but not much else.

They'd get more people interested in Transformers and sell more toys and merchandise if they quit making cartoons and comics that aren't great because of acting, writing, directing, etc. The general audience arent a bunch of idiots. They know good entertainment when they see it just like we do, though maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote.

Anecdotes are all I can provide here but several of the things that bother us aren't an issue to more casual viewers. I don't need to see the end of the war and Optimus and Bumblebee working together to send away the Allspark, that's been done over and over and over and over since 2007. A casual viewer got that maybe twice in the same time period. The voice acting is stiff to us in places but compared to some English anime dubs it's pitch perfect - and an anime fan with a passing interest in Transformers is one of the markets this is aimed at, why else would they call it anime when anime ja nai? I have pals and coworkers that watched it and thought it was fun. That said, no one, myself included, puts this thing up on any high pedestal but it's not the trainwreck one might expect from skimming these posts.

Maybe the difference is expectations. The marketing hype led you to believe this was G1 redone like never before. It's not and was never meant to be G1, the amount of money that would require isn't practical anymore. We're a captive audience that, if we buy that oversimplified marketing hype, provide free viral buzz and promotion for our corporate overlords. Meanwhile, the show was in the top 10 of US Netflix for at least one point this weekend when I signed in and our "fan" audience isn't going to do that on its own.

My expectations were as low as I could set them internally, in other words I expected more of the Prime Wars trash bin. WfC isn't stellar, but on the whole it was ok and certainly much better than Prime Wars. I also think it's inappropriate to judge it based on three episodes. They cut it into episodes for some reason, but this is really just a movie and to stop there is to leave the theater after the first act.

I'm going to touch on 2 points mentioned over the past page, and one that's a bit different:

1) Will is correct with the 5 minutes of Bumblebee movie giving me a reason to cheer for and like Prime, whereas this 2 hours and 15 minutes did none of that. The Bee movie did the same thing essentially: showed the Autobots as the resistance, badly outnumbered, and basically desperate. But in Bumblebee, we got glimpses of characters that cared for one another, a better plan to use, some actual connection to those characters. All in a couple of minutes. And here, there was nothing.

This shows some of the extreme ends of success. One did very well in a couple minutes, the other didn't even try.

2) Ryan, I hear your criticisms of Cyberverse, but you, much like others in the past couple of months, seemed to have formed the opinion around Season 1 entirely. Season 1 is almost like that first time out prequel movie that came before the actual main events. Season 2 and especially Season 3 are very good.

Also, with regards to a proper voice director, Cyberverse is another great example. The variety and quality of voices is pretty dang good in the show. Jake sounds so much better in Cyberverse for example, he fits right in.

And with the voice acting, I take you to the Resistance of Season 3. you have:

-Hot Rod - the kid who is trying to lead this Resistance and trying to figure it all out, the struggles of growing as a leader, he has a higher pitch to him, with more excitement you would expect from someone younger.
-Soundwave - a long time high ranking con who is all business and feels no qualms about what he needs to do to win. His voice echos that straightforwardness and is tuned extremely well, no one else sounds like him. He is Marvel G1/TF Cybertron Jerk Soundwave as a competent commander type
-Clobber - the brunt lady of the group who isn't overly bright but has feelings for others and loves to punch stuff. Her voice is deeper than we are used to, but it conveys her ability to have feelings while also being one of the strongest characters
-Dead End - one of the best casting choices transformers has had in years, he is just that good. The doom and gloom Dead End that somehow keeps on getting in the fight and finding ways to win while also being a snarky doomsday welcomer, there is a lot going on with him and he's very enjoyable
-Whirl - he has that higher pitched voice, much more so than Hot Rod, and he sort of conveys that sneaky level of both anxiety and insanity behind his actions. As the first take on him in a cartoon, it's pretty convincing, not quite what an IDW Whirl would sound like, but still a welcome voice that stands out
-Perceptor - very matter of fact, gets straight to the point, has a very scientific voice behind him, is not afraid to state whatever he is thinking and then move right on. The voice screams "smartest guy in the room" while being very tempered and calm.
-Maccadam - the bouncy, wily, old barkeep who can see the future, and can alternate between both sorrow for his former crew and lively and cheerful to tend to his guests. He conveys age and wisdom yet still has fun and relatable to him

You look at these 7 cast members, and how they interact with each other throughout the season, whether as a full crew or as smaller groups. They are very good. They are all unique. You can be doing chores and not looking at the TV but know exactly who is saying what, how they are feeling, and where everyone stands, and to a degree know exactly what is going on. This is a cast done right, this is a cast that was steered to its best result. This is a cast that people can relate to, enjoy, and find fun and take seriously.

3) Cyberverse honestly shows itself as a show that could be pretty easily adult-oriented as well, given some extra pieces of animated/a different animation type.

This was discussed on Twitter by me and some others, and if you look at it, Cyberverse does a great job of showing the war as a thing happening, with propaganda and with casualties. Megatron used Starscream's death to try to show the bots as awful for killing his "friend" when in fact it was Megatron who thought he had killed Scream.

Also, below is a spoiler tagged list of everyone killed in the show and how. And if you read it, and then think about any Siege casualties in the same manner, it really is not different, and it's only really the portrayal of the show that could differentiate this as "adult" content:

-Blurr (and countless others) - disintegrated to rust by a plague
-Most of the Seekers (Thundercracker, Thrust, Acid Storm, Nova Storm, and more) - Starscream strips them of their sparks as part of his plan to kill the entire race of Transformers after they help him alter the allspark to be able to do so
-Slipstream: stabbed through the back by Bludgeon for supposedly betraying the cons
-Multiple alternate Arks disintegrated by being trapped in unspace (realm between dimensions)
-Prowl - shot by Shadowstriker
-Shockwave - extracts his spark to poison the allspark
-Cheetor -extracts his spark to stop Shockwave from corrupting the allspark
-Bludgeon - banished to unspace
-Hound - yanked from the Quintesson loop improperly
-Iaconus - decapitated by unspace bubble
-Starscream - turned into a Quintesson judge and destroyed by a combo of Optimus and Megatron's matrices
-Megatron - killed by his alternate self to reclaim that matrix
-numerous generics on both sides to unspace/shooting/slicing/explosions/etc.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:
2) Ryan, I hear your criticisms of Cyberverse, but you, much like others in the past couple of months, seemed to have formed the opinion around Season 1 entirely. Season 1 is almost like that first time out prequel movie that came before the actual main events. Season 2 and especially Season 3 are very good.

Cyberverse Season three started off good but it is for the most part worse than season one with out of place episodes, lack of plot, by time it starts to get back on track Kup starts narrating some sub par episodes and then just starts on a pretty much unrelated arcs/convenience more than following through. Still have to see the end so maybe it can establish some kind of track to the new direction it decided to slam into the show just as it is ending.

I've not seen WFC yet, but I'm wondering if Megatron and Optimus being bit parts in Cyberverse effects the acting/character portrayal when the characters suddenly become centre stage and more important to a story. Megatrons voice was fine in cyberverse and I'm probably going to have to listen to some of WFC with my eyes closed to see if the lips detract from the audio.

As for WFC being dark and gritty because reasons, a lot of the transformers media that involved war (when compared to G1s series of mainly we've beaten the enemy, let them go so we can do it all again) WFC games, Headmasters, The movie etc etc has all of that. I'll go in thinking it's designed to sell toys first and foremost and is it good enough to make me forget that whilst watching it.
Expecting a slow build that has potential (kinda like rooster teeths genlock), some butchering of characters/origins like the WFC games and it to be a vast improvement ove the low bar prime wars machinima.

Will be weird if they don't get Garry Chalk for WFC kingdom but would he actually turn it down if he isn't impressed with what he has seen so far? Paychecks often talk more than credibility, eg Cullen.

I think some people here are misunderstanding something when it comes to this show's voice cast. This show does not use the Cyberverse voice actors. Rather, it only uses Jake Foushee as the voice of Optimus. Literally no other voice actor in this WFCT cartoon besides him was in Cyberverse.

I have to agree. For all of the effort put into this new show, some of the voices just take you out of it. It was very obviously a G1-centric production, so why did half of the voices fit and the others didn't? Whomever it was that did Prime's voice; They sounded like your friend who THINKS they do a good Prime impersonation. The cadence was way off.

You can totally tell because the quality of the voice acting is terrible. Weird pauses and delivery ... it's almost like they haven't even read it through before they start the line reading.
Plus, whoever said everyone is trying to sound like a tough guy was absolutely right. The bad guys all had growls and the good guys all talked like tough guys.

But that's only one of this show's problems.

While I loved him as Optimus Primal, Garry is the last one who should be calling anything "low energy" after using the same basic voice for so many characters for decades.

It should also be noted that he was in the same position years ago when he did new versions of GI Joe and He-Man/MOTU and that fans had the same criticisms then.

aronjlove wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

Deadput wrote:Ultra Magnus plays a big part in post 1986 type stuff (cartoon and comics alike) so his importance doesn't even tend to exist prior to Earth stuff most of the time, although he is the most important character out of these 3 overall but he was a big part of this show and is implied to have been important to the war and being trusted along with Optimus by Alpha Trion, all things considered he got it pretty good here.

I agree. Obviously, I'd like it better if he didn't die, but they did him justice with the death he got.

And without Magnus dying Bumblebee would never have joined the Autobots.

I'm glad we got a Bumblebee who could talk and wasn't sucking up to Prime. Although I did find it strange that he sold Energon for coins(?), like, what else does a bot need to purchase other than Energon...


Edit: added spoiler tag

Eh. I just didn't care for it. This version of Bumblebee reminded me of 90s comics when everything was EXTREME, DARK and FULL OF ATTITUDE. His whole deal was "I'm such a bad ass, I don't need to be an Autobot."
Really? Because you're tiny and you're yellow.

It's such a played out trope.

Delicon wrote:While I loved him as Optimus Primal, Garry is the last one who should be calling anything "low energy" after using the same basic voice for so many characters for decades.

It should also be noted that he was in the same position years ago when he did new versions of GI Joe and He-Man/MOTU and that fans had the same criticisms then.

He kept using the same voice, his natural voice btw, because that's what all the people who kept hiring him wanted him to use.

It's not he's got multiple Optimus voices in his arsenal. He was cast to play Optimus Prime in the Unicron Trilogy because the people who hired him wanted his Optimus Primal voice.

returnofplex wrote:I have to agree. For all of the effort put into this new show, some of the voices just take you out of it. It was very obviously a G1-centric production, so why did half of the voices fit and the others didn't? Whomever it was that did Prime's voice; They sounded like your friend who THINKS they do a good Prime impersonation. The cadence was way off.

Go to 4 minute mark of this episode, where Bumblebee remembers the time Prime came to his rescue. It's the same voice actor doing Optimus Prime here and he sounds much better, cadence wise, than in the Siege show. You'll let me know if you agree.



Am I the only one who was far more satisfied by this 10 min episode than the netflix Siege film?

jON3.0 wrote:The timing was already set when I recorded. Lines had to be done the way I did them to fit. I did the absolute best job I possible could as I was instructed to do in the job I was hired for and tried my hardest to do them as Peter would do them himself within the time constrictions I was working with.

That's why I don't think he is referring to you, unlike what it may seem. But at the same time, I don't get why he would blame any voice actor, when the voice directing would be at fault anyways. I think he may be simply not aware of the difference between the BB film and the Bay films where he did work for months on those Bay movies and they had to map out his mouth. He probably thinks the same thing happened in this production when it wasn't the case and this is more like an animated gig than a "live action" gig. I will make an ammendment to the article for precision.

ZeroWolf wrote:Though it is funny to think of this as a reverse tmnt in a way as the original tmnt comic was the complete opposite of the main thing its known for...the Cartoon

What I find amazing about TMNT is that you then got the film which was gritty and showed the roots of the comic, at least atmosphere wise, and how it worked in the first place. It's a fascinating franchise.

ScottyP wrote: The marketing hype led you to believe this was G1 redone like never before. It's not and was never meant to be G1, the amount of money that would require isn't practical anymore.

I really want to talk about this. Because I can totally see why Ryan would think this was the first true G1 remake we'd be getting, especially since just last week at SDCC at home the director adressed how G1 this was, going as far as to say this was a prequel to the cartoon. He knew fans would be watching, and was hyping it up in the way Ryan claimed. And I can see how even the writers would have the G1 cartoon as a loose reminder of where certain players have to be. And the inclusion of Soundblaster is definitely the kind of stuff done for fans.
That said, I am then reminded of a conversation all three of us had a year or so ago, when I said that Cyberverse was really looking like the "G1 remake" or the G1 for this generation (I had talked about this with O.Supreme as well I think), to which Ryan said that title would go more towards the Netflix series. And now that we have both before us, I think I properly called it. Cyberverse is as much a "G1 remake" as we could get while still being it's own thing. Firstly, it has the same conflict and characters as the G1 show and is made for the same audience as the G1 show. It revisits G1 concepts, like the Quintessons, and gives them a new interpretation. Anyone who loves the G1 show and its characters as it is would like Season 2 and 3 of Cyberverse, it offers the exact same cartoon goodness with the same characters.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:-Hot Rod - the kid who is trying to lead this Resistance and trying to figure it all out, the struggles of growing as a leader, he has a higher pitch to him, with more excitement you would expect from someone younger.

I LOVED this aspect. As I wrote above, Cyberverse is the G1 of this era, and I think they ace the How Rod leadership more than in G1, where the movie killed off prime and gave the autobots a new leader, who had just been introduced in the same film. In Cyberverse, Hot Rod's ascension feels less gimmicky or preordained. He isn't a chosen one, he just rises to the occasion as a dedicated soldier who will not accept defeat. And the fact that we have seen Hot Rod since season one makes the show and his ascension feel more cohesive and organic. It is my best example of how good Cyberverse and how it plays as a G1 remake.

blackeyedprime wrote:Will be weird if they don't get Garry Chalk for WFC kingdom but would he actually turn it down if he isn't impressed with what he has seen so far? Paychecks often talk more than credibility, eg Cullen.

Oh man, I had not thought of that and yet I wrote all these articles. Primal without Chalk would be rough for me.

william-james88 wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Will be weird if they don't get Garry Chalk for WFC kingdom but would he actually turn it down if he isn't impressed with what he has seen so far? Paychecks often talk more than credibility, eg Cullen.

Oh man, I had not thought of that and yet I wrote all these articles. Primal without Chalk would be rough for me.

I think we can expect Primal to not be voiced by Chalk. Not only did they cast Ron Perlman to play him in POTP, but now with them going non-union and recording everything in New York, I can't see them reaching out to Chalk all the way over in Vancouver.

And that's another thing to consider: Location. U.S. productions use U.S. voice actors and Canadian productions use Canadian voice actors, with very rarely any overlap. While certain actors have crossed over between productions done in one country or another, people like Tara Strong and Maurice LaMarche have dual citizenship in both countries, while David Kaye had to actually move to Los Angeles to get work there and has since done very few Canadian productions. Garry Chalk, meanwhile, is still in Vancouver and has primarily done projects produced in Vancouver, both animated and live action (such as Arrow, for instance).

With WFCT sticking with non-union U.S. actors to save money, and with Garry Chalk being both in another country and on the opposite side of the continent, the odds of their getting him to play Primal are pretty much up the creek.

Regarding the tmnt movie, I recently watched the toys that made us for Turtles and loved the reaction of the suits to the movie to what happened when it opened.

And will, I agree with saying that Cyberverse was intended to be the 'g1' of this era, a new starting point for kids. WfC wants to market itself as those that either watch causally or fans who want something more. Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

ZeroWolf wrote:Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

Yeah, that's Netflix's fault. They're the ones calling it an anime when it isn't. They're doing so purely for marketing reasons to try to get people to think that it's not for kids.

And yet, despite all the warfare, turmoil, violence, death, destruction, and two instances of cussing, do you guys know what the official content rating is for this show? TV-Y7. That's right, according to rating, this grim and bleak war series is designed for elementary school kids.

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

Yeah, that's Netflix's fault. They're the ones calling it an anime when it isn't. They're doing so purely for marketing reasons to try to get people to think that it's not for kids.

And yet, despite all the warfare, turmoil, violence, death, destruction, and two instances of cussing, do you guys know what the official content rating is for this show? TV-Y7. That's right, according to rating, this grim and bleak war series is designed for elementary school kids.

Ironic. An attempt at winning over the people that think the term "anime" would automatically win them over doesn't really mean anything more beyond it being a gimmick. And after getting reminded about the rating being TV-Y7, I kind of laughed like J Jonah Jameson did. All that "dark & mature" stuff can't even get to a higher rating. At least TFP being Y7 was acceptable since it was a more mainstream show than WFC is, especially considering its probably got an additional FV for Fantasy Violence.

Look, I want Earthrise to be worth watching, and while I'm not going to have extremely high expectations, I want it to be at least better than Siege was.

Sabrblade wrote: Garry Chalk, meanwhile, is still in Vancouver and has primarily done projects produced in Vancouver, both animated and live action (such as Arrow, for instance).

Garry Chalk seems worldly enough, in terms of his hollywood clout. We mention his big roles, but he's been in last year's Sonic film, and the 2014 Godzilla. He's a steady actor. I know I am setting myself up for dissapointment if I still hold out some hope but I'd be dissapointed regardless, even if there was no hope of him voicing him.

Sabrblade wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Still dont agree with it being labelled anime. Call it an Eastern style if you wish but its a cartoon. On simple terms, if this is an anime so is the original sunbow toon.

Yeah, that's Netflix's fault. They're the ones calling it an anime when it isn't. They're doing so purely for marketing reasons to try to get people to think that it's not for kids.

And yet, despite all the warfare, turmoil, violence, death, destruction, and two instances of cussing, do you guys know what the official content rating is for this show? TV-Y7. That's right, according to rating, this grim and bleak war series is designed for elementary school kids.

Yeah the anime makes no sense, and the cartoon shows up the "Netflix Kids" option so they were never gonna fool anyone.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote: Garry Chalk, meanwhile, is still in Vancouver and has primarily done projects produced in Vancouver, both animated and live action (such as Arrow, for instance).

Garry Chalk seems worldly enough, in terms of his hollywood clout. We mention his big roles, but he's been in last year's Sonic film, and the 2014 Godzilla. He's a steady actor. I know I am setting myself up for dissapointment if I still hold out some hope but I'd be dissapointed regardless, even if there was no hope of him voicing him.

Yeah, but Hollywood films are a different beast from TV/web/streaming cartoons.

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:I have yet to watch this series, but from what everyone's saying, it sounds to me like Jake still has yet to really find that spark that takes his Optimus voice to greatness. His Peter Cullen impression is pretty good, but often even in his better performances it can still come off as... a little wooden/overly stoic? I don't think it's Jake's fault so much, I just think most of the voice direction he's gotten has likely encouraged him to lean into the Peter Cullen impression at the cost of actually adding that extra dimension to the character Peter usually had and/or making it his own. Jake will definitely get there someday, no doubt in my mind, but for now I'm just frustrated with his Optimus voice not reaching its potential.

Jake was way better in Cyberverse than in this. So I think Ryan's guess that the problem is more on the voice director's end is on point.

Also speaking of Optimus, I too, like D-Max, found it hard to root for him as the hero. He didn't at all feel like the character I associate Optimus with. Felt more like IDW Barber's Prime or the more recent relaunched IDW Prime which I really do not like. He just didn't feel like the one to lead or someone I would get behind and go into battle with. I got more of the Optimus Prime I can root for in the 5 minutes of him in the BB movie than in the 2.5 hours of this show.

Oh no, I agree, the actual problems with the voice acting are almost certainly the fault of the voice director. We have seen many of these VAs do better in Cyberverse, I'm not trying to speak negatively about the abilities of this stable of VAs. My point about Optimus was not directly related to that, and even there I point the finger for my disappointment in Jake's Optimus voice at voice directors. I agree he was better in Cyberverse than what I've heard of his performance in the Netflix trailers, I was just expressing that I've been disappointed with Jake's Optimus voice even there. I don't think it's Jake's fault, I just think he's got great potential that he's not reaching, again probably the voice directors' fault: they probably want him to focus on his Peter Cullen impression to the exclusion of adding much depth to the voice and/or making it his own.

I would say the scripting itself would partially have to do with that. Magnus, Elita, Ratchet, Prowl and Ironhide ALL had lines that undermined or criticized Optimus Prime, sometimes brutally. Bumblebee wasn't buying what he was selling - if Bee doesn't buy it from OPTIMUS PRIME, how can the audience? Elita was like a mother-hen who questioned every single decision he made - If I didn't know who it was, I would hate her, so basically I hate this take on her. Prime arguably never got to BE Prime. The whole thing turns on someone not trusting his leadership.

I guess I'll have to say that I agree with the VO on this. It was overall bad and disappointing to hear voices used previously do such a bad job. It's definitely the directing with this, much like when you see the bad acting in the star wars prequels. So many of those actors had been award winners and came off terrible.

Storywise it was okay. I sort of miss the days of G1 when it felt more like the Decepticons came off as the Military and the Autobots as the working class of Cybertron.

I know back in the day we had a lot of very generic tranformers as background characters, and many toys that were just basically repaints, but the reuse in this series was ridiculous. I could see Cog not being seen as a weapon himself if it had only been him and the Power Dasher character (can't remember the name) but they had a few others in there as well as generic transformers. If they'd maybe given us a few that weren't modeled on other characters, it would have been fine.

But ultimately, this version of Optimus didn't even feel like Optimus to me. Him always saying "Trust Me" was annoying. In Animated he came off as being new to leadership, and it was well done, in G1 he was built to be a leader and was experienced but was still learning, in Prime, he'd been a leader for a while and knew what they were fighting for. In this, he was more like a sleazy politician playing at being a war leader.

Alita-1 was rather disappointing to me. I always look forward to the female characters and she was really kind of bland to me. Someone else called her a mother Hen and I would agree with that. I can't judge any of the character for not trusting Optimus in this though since as mentioned before, sleazy politician.

I did like the animation over all, but I wish they'd had some variety in the transformation sound. The rare times we saw actually transformations, the sound was the same, no mater how fast or slow the transformation was.

The comments I've been seeing on other pop culture sites and my own Facebook feed suggest that some of us are really out of touch with what 'regular' people expect out of this show. I'm seeing a lot more praise and barely any serious criticism of the show overall, with most comments being something along the lines of "I loved it, can't wait for the next part."

Go figure.

sol magnus wrote:The comments I've been seeing on other pop culture sites and my own Facebook feed suggest that some of us are really out of touch with what 'regular' people expect out of this show. I'm seeing a lot more praise and barely any serious criticism of the show overall, with most comments being something along the lines of "I loved it, can't wait for the next part."

Go figure.

Fandoms can often be overly critical, there is a reason the saying "No one hates Star Wars more than a Star Wars fan" exists. I think the critique of the voice work here is accurate, but it is not as much of a deal-breaker to the average individual than it is to someone who would frequent these forums. The average person probably hasn't had any Transformers animation to watch so this seems fresh, while many here probably own entire previous series on disc and watch them again frequently. This reinforces our opinions of previous shows, which are often times tinted with nostalgia from when we initialy watch those shows.

sol magnus wrote:The comments I've been seeing on other pop culture sites and my own Facebook feed suggest that some of us are really out of touch with what 'regular' people expect out of this show. I'm seeing a lot more praise and barely any serious criticism of the show overall, with most comments being something along the lines of "I loved it, can't wait for the next part."

Go figure.

Indeed though I think its the same across entertainment not just this show. Look at all the people who critiqued Big Bang Theory, yet that was super popular. In this case, i wonder how many of the people who have loved it like that will even think of it in the following weeks or only remember about it in the run up to Earthrise?

I'll be giving it a second rewatch, but solely for the review I'm making of Chapter 1. It's a series that I don't think I'd give as many requent rewatches as much as I have with Beast Wars, the few G1 episodes I like, Animated, TFP, most of the Movies, or binging each Cyberverse season.